Tom Hicks is Back, Lucas is Still Quality, and Other Thursday Notes

Lucas was very young and came from Brazil - ie not used to pace in EPL, less muscular, less fit, distribution not as good. Over time he's matured, bulked up so he's physically able to challenge more, makes less fouls near the penalty area and fouls and even penalties late in games (he used to do that). He's improved in every aspect of the game, challenges, less fouls, fitter, bulked up, distribution MUCH better (albeit not Alonsoesque). He's terrible in front of goal (as peeps point out) but even Cesc Fabregas and Alonso only improved on that aspect late in their careers. He's also improved on the timing of challenges. I've never been a Lucas hater (but I could see why peeps did earlier), he will improve (Rafa predicted this) on penatrative passes and also shooting. Hope that answered the original question.

Thanks to you and also Dj-Chutfield and Noel for answers to my question. Sounds like he just needed time to grow into his current role, as many athletes often do. Hopefully he will only get better, he is not old by any means.

If you told me 3 years ago that I would sit down and enjoy a 4 minute video of pure Lucas, I would have laughed.

Relatively new LFC fan here. I really like what I've been seeing out of Lucas so far this year, but could anyone explain what he's doing differently now? It seems as if he were not so highly regarded in the previous season.

I think for most people, they didn't want to blame Rafa for his terrible last season so Lucas became the scapegoat. I must admit, I was a one-time Lucas basher, but only because of the own goal he scored in the league and the series of penalty kicks he gave away.

It was also a case of people missing Alonso, as Noel mentioned. His game against Lille last season is what pulled me out of out Lucas bashing ways and now I fully support him. Sorry, Lucas!

I think some of it is confidence and maturing, since he is a better player now than he used to be, but looking at older footage of him he isn't a radically different player by any stretch--it's an issue of degrees--and he's not doing anything different now than he has been for the past eighteen months. He continues to improve, but it's not as though he's become a different sort of pllayer.

Honestly, as much as anything, I think a big part of the change is external. It took time to get over Alonso; the number of people demanding he didn't actually completely suck reached a kind of critical mass; Roy Hodgson being appointed while Sky cheered was like a kick to the head that convinced some people they needed to approach football a little differently; some of it's just that the people who do rate him get more vocal about the reasons for it when he's been our most consistent performer over the past 18 months and there are still some fools who think he should be the first against the wall.

Though there will always be people like the above Martin, I suppose, who despite speaking Catalan must think Pep Guardiola's an idiot for insisting on starting Busquets over Mascherano.

I don't understand your last comment Noel. On the contrary, I think Guardiola would be seriously weird to include Mascherano in the team. Pep obviously realised very quickly he'd blundered and so keeps Masch for meaningless games when Barça are already five up from the first leg. Anyway, someone who refuses to play for the team who pays his wages isn't worth debating.

I wrote a long reply and Disqus ate it. My point and issue is that you're comparing a holding midfielder to attacking midfielders and forwards and not another holding midfielder. In most modern systems there will be at least one midfielder whose role is as defensive as a fullback in an old school flat back four, while at least one and often two fullbacks will be primarily judged by their ability to provide attacking width and deliver the ball effectively from such positions.

So, one, you're comparing Lucas to Xavi and Iniesta and not Busquets, a player who fills a similar role in Barcelona and Spain's system. If you think Lucas sucks and his role is useless, you should still be comparing him to Busquets, and you should be telling us if Guardiola and Del Bosque are morons for winning trophies with him while they have or could easily acquire "better" players that would be more exciting and attacking. If, however, you can understand the importance of the role Busquets fills but can't understand Lucas, you've got an odd and angry blind spot there. But you should still be saying you think Lucas sucks in comparison to Busquets.

Both Busquets and Lucas fill one of the three to four most defensive roles on their respective sides. At least have the intellectual honesty to compare similar players in similar roles, whether or not you understand the utility of that role.

I've written a small book worth of posts on the subject, and with Disqus eating my last effort I'm going to stop at linking to them rather than trying to write another essay today.

http://liverpool.theoffside.co...
http://liverpool.theoffside.co...
http://liverpool.theoffside.co...
http://liverpool.theoffside.co...

I failed to see one single pass I couldn't have made now. I am fifty-eight years old. Twenty years ago I could have made much better ones. Lucas is a waste of space. Always was, always will be. Not good enough to wash Charlie Adam's jockstrap. Lucas is the living proof that some Brazilians are crap at football.

Thanks for stopping by, Robbie Mustoe.

With all due respect, none that is, he only pass that could possibly apply to you is bypass.

I speak English ( my native language ), Spanish and some Catalan. But I am afraid I don't speak your language. What is it, by the way? Oh, how many goals has Lucas scored this season? Er, none. One less than last season. Wow! The guy's prolific. Watch out Iniesta.

Lucas hasn't scored a goal yet, then he must be crap. You speak a few languages but your eyesight's off. You should've gone to Specsavers.

Lucas has gone from tender squad player to indispensable starter for LFC. That's how good he is.

When you've seen real midfield players - the likes of Molby, McMahon, Milne, Cally, Hughes,
Houghton, Barnes, Stevenson and, obviously, Gerrard - then Sunday league players like Leiva are a bit hard to take. Pass completion means absolutely nothing, by the way. Leiva is the master of the three yard pass. He is to football what Bjorn Borg was to rugby.

Lucas' pass completion rate against Chelsea was around 90% and has been consistently high this season. Adam (note, I don’t mind him, he is creative) dips in at about 55%, which I’m sure even you could accomplish. The point is that Lucas is essentially a holding midfielder, a pivot point, so he’s not there primarily to hit the net. To judge him on this criteria is to reveal that football is definitely not your lingua franca. Given you ask, I speak your Queen’s English, Greek and French. And yeah, I’m not sure about your math either.

Pass completion is a meaningles statistic. What is important is how good the passes are and how much damage they do to the opposition. Have you seen Iniesta and Xavi? That's what I call damaging. Tapping the ball three feet to the side doesn't really do it for me. But a manager as shrewd as Dalglish will surely be working on bringing in someone useful and packing Leiva off in the summer. Delighted your English has improved.

Unfortunately your grasp of the basics of football hasn't. Ineffective passing means inevitable loss of possession, which in turn heaps pressure on a team and unduly increases the rate at which it needs to work to reassert itself in the contest. There are others at Liverpool midfielders tasked with responsibility for genetating goal scoring passes, such as Gerrard. You're starting to bore me. Seeya.

Clearly the comments of someone who stares blankly at footall, drooling, rather than watching it. So by your morals, the Makeleles, Mascheranos, De Jongs and Songs of this world are garbage because " he don't kick ball in goal!"
I've got news for you, Charlie Adam ain't a defensive midfielder! And the years spent watching him at Rangers were some of the most painful as a football fan. In fairness to him he's picked up his game enormously in recent times. Entirely down to the fact he's had a team built around him, something he won't get ANYWHERE else in the premier league.

I did use to drool a bit Rosco, but that was when we had midfields marvels like Molby, Barnes, Cally and co. As for Mascherano, he was probably one of the five most overrated players I've seen at Anfield...couldn't head, no left foot, never scored, couldn't dribble, refused to play for the team...ever wondered why Guardiola never plays him?

Well that's a more than ample counter-arguement for salivating I agree, but don't you think in the modern game there is a greater need for the less than glorious midfielders? There is a lot more focus on whippet-like, technically gifted full backs these days and I genuinely believe most teams need these so-called "ugly midfielders".
To be honest I never seen a place in Barca's set up for mascherano, why they forked out (£20m?) is beyond me as Busquets is just one of those Barca players straight out the factory that fits perfectly. But I was always a fan of Masch and always will be, the likes of him and Lucas, De Jong, maybe even Mark Van Bumhole, are definitely required in the modern game.

Even if they ain't the prettiest.

Just as an aside, my kids call the Arshavin from the Gunners 'Shaven Arse'.

It's moments like that, that really must make a father proud. Genius

Because he has Sergio Busquets, who is better for the team's cohesion, plays worthless sideways passes, helps control the squad in possession, and essentially serves a function similar to Lucas.

But if you don't like the player, there won't be anything done to convince you that he's good for the squad, regardless of meaningless statistics like pass completion.

I think your telling phrase Ed is 'good for the squad.' Nobody would say Rush, Dalglish, Keegan, Messi, Ronaldo etc etc were 'good for the squad.' They would say they were brilliant. Good for the squad translates as 'can't actually do anything but team seems to play better with him in it.' Pretty faint praise. What I don't understand is why some players are given endless opportunities and others are dismissed as crap after one or two games. Liverpool are particularly guilty of this.

Appreciate you telling me what I meant, but we'll try again--"good for the squad" translates as "does exactly what the team needs and plays better with him in it." In this case it's maintaining possession, driving the team forward at times, and being a tireless presence in the middle part of the pitch. He's not any of the brilliant players you mention, because they're all attack-minded players that give you a hard-on whilst ball-watching or playing FIFA but would likely be shit on the same side. Great sides have a balance of the types of players you mention with the types of player that Lucas is--doesn't make him any less necessary.

I know you've already come to your conclusion about Lucas, though, so there's really no point. I'll just say, yeah, you're right, Ronaldo and Messi are the best!

I'm still wondering why we bid for him during the window.

When I heard the average fees being thrown around the contents of my bowels nearly hit the floor.
If it had been mentioned a few years back that in the near future Liverpool, Man Utd and Tottenham would enter a bidding war for Charlie Adam I definitely would have been consulting my Nostradamus.

The fees had the opposite effect on me.....my butt clenched up for a couple days.

Am I going nuts, or did your post just morph from something clever about Reina and goal scoring into what it is now? How did you do that?

Heh. Thought I'd better keep it civil here. We're all Reds fan after all. :-)

Gotcha. Seriously though, I'm a bit of a pedant and it shits me when Disqus occasionally screws up my spelling. How does one do this 'Edited by author ?? minutes ago' thing?

Somehow mine's hooked up to my Twitter account so that's how I'm able to edit my own posts. Sometimes Ed edits mine for fun.

So if I tell U shove hotdogs up any of you body cavities it's not me.

It didn't let me do that before. Then one day it did let me do that. It's Disqus--all I can suggest is keep hitting that "edit" button below the comment and maybe one of these days it'll mysteriously decide to start working for you.

Sorry Noel, I know you've got plenty else to get on with, and thanks for the reply, however under each post I make, the only buttons I've ever seen are 'like' and 'reply'. Do I need to sign up to Disqus or something. Feel free to ignore this if its too much trouble. Cheers.

Yeah, I think you need to sign up for Disqus in order to edit comments. There's also the option of giving me free reign to edit your posts as I see fit.

Choose wisely.

I like whichever option ends in tears.

That's ok cos I'm physically incapable of crying, although if Reina leaves that may all change.

*fans.

Those were some sexy passes. That video gave me a serious Luchub.