Spurs 4, Liverpool 0: Kenny Dalglish and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day

spurs lost 5-1 to man city at home, and we lost 4-0 to spurs away...i shudder to think what happens when we meet man city, or worse..man united

Ah the transitive property...perfectly applicable to sports. Except for all the times it isn't.

yes true, but this could be applicable in this case....seeing the gulf in class that i'm witnessing between the teams

Don't get me wrong, I was sort of having fun with your comment, and I'm sort of terrified of playing Man U or City as it stands currently. I expect our squad to be ready by those fixtures, though that could be just blind optimism on my part.

well said redtrev but seein us so inept yesterday was like seein the horrible shitty liverpool side under uncle woy all over again

I'm a liverpool fan since 1975, then I was only a primary 5 student. I had seen thru' the high and low for Liverpool the last 36 years. Never that I felt so sorry as today. I think Dalglish has to figure out how he can use Carroll on the field or this guy will certainly goes down in the Liverpool history as the biggest flop. Shouldn't had sold Meireles even if he had put up a transfer request. Please let Kuyt play rather than Carroll. Should have buy Adebayor.

Agree with most of the posts on here that are callnig for a bit of calm and patience, but also agree that after a result like this, questions rightly should be asked.

I run a football team and try to work out the best way of maximising my players strengths. With that in mind, I am struggling to understand the reason for playing Carroll up front without any attempt to provide service from the wing. Adam was always going to try long diagonal balls (more hit and miss) and Downing was playing as an inverted winger to start with.

I was then baffled at the tactical response to going to 10 men. Carroll out to the left? Presumably to win an aerial battle to provide a knock down to the supporting midfield, which is a tactic dependant on the midfield consisting of the types of players who want to be breaking through and attack the goal.

We have been guilty of playing too long when Carroll is on the pitch and this doesn't dispel concerns that the players seem naturally prone to do so. Carroll is going to get typecast as a one dimensional player if we continue to use him as such. We can’t criticise the boy for having to challenge every 50/50 aerial challenge when he gets long ball pumped up to him. I wonder what the stats are on outfield players win % on contesting 50/50 tackles compared to Carrols % of winning 50/50  aerial battles.

But just as concerning is the lack of creativity in our attacks; we have one inventive player in Suarez. It’s all very well buying players who have a high % of chance creation, but we seem to have pigeon holed our players abilities and are hoping that the constant execution of those abilities will be enough to create the chances we need. But football is more subtle than that and if the opposition nullify a characteristic, then how you adapt to that is important and watching Adam try another 30 yard diagonal ball does not demonstrate tactical intelligence.

I must admit that at this point in time, my positivity over Kenny’s fluid and interchanging systems of last year are turning into concerns that he is trying too hard to shoehorn players into a system that was successful over 20 years ago. He may have brought players in to play this system, but if they weren't as good as the originals, then it could be a hard slog.

5 games in – new boys report card:

Enrique: Has fitted in well. Solid defending. Rarely gets beaten. Offers a good if not spectacular attacking threat. Looks to have resolved the question mark we’ve had at left back in recent times. Probably signals the last season for Aurelio, so it would be nice to see Robinson get some games this season in order to gain experience so that we have healthy competition for the starting slot.

Adam: Concerning lack of input in games where he has little time on the ball. Under pressure he gives the ball away at a very high rate. Has done nothing to dispel my initial concerns that he was not athletic enough and didn’t provide enough tactical awareness (read defensive support) to be a really top drawer player. I think it’s still pertinent to question Kenny’s preference of Adam over the likes of Aquilani/Meireles and question the judgement of moving two creative and possession based players on to replace them with someone who’s chance creation stats may look good, but who’s frailties have not improved.
Henderson: Getting stick, but when you see lots of effort, you can forgive certain things. If he was 25, I’d be more concerned. The team hasn’t been doing so well and he’s young and is still settling in. I don’t expect a 20 year old in a team performing like we are at the moment to be able to take the game by the scruff of the neck and start to dictate things. I’d love to see him make the step up and take responsibility when the going gets tough.

Downing: Very good start, you know what you are going to get with Downing and uses his artillery well. Wasn’t signed to be sexy, was signed to deliver – wing is one of the positions where chance creation stats make sense to me. Yes, it would be nice to have someone else in the squad perhaps on the other wing that IS sexy, that has flair and takes players on like Cristiano R does, but I’m happy to have brought in a proven EPL performer.

Carroll: The team have got to start using him better and he has to start demanding that the team use him differently. He looks like he should have been signed for $15m as a squad player when he’s our biggest signing. It’s a two way street and something has to change. We’ll make a massive loss on the kid if we don’t figure out a way to use him.

Do we have any pressing priorities for January?

We still don’t have genuine width on the right wing. Maybe there’s some value in the January window for that position?
Right back? Is Johnson an injury liability? Is Kelly a future CB? There’s not many class right backs available at the moment though who would come to us. Maybe Van der Wiel with the Kuyt connection?
 

Very good post - you omitted the overall assessment of Comolli which is probably key too!

Is he the new Twentyman?  Perhaps an unfair question, it's a different world today.

If you look at Spurs, Arnesen and then Comolli bought some excellent players (and some duds, not in one season) but the balance wasn't right until Harry came in and added a few of his old favourites.
We may be following the same developmental path with perhaps some younger players in key positions.  
Players/mgrs take time to gel and work out how to operate especially in tight conditions though the 4th place challenge means time is not on our side.

My weirdo back of the napkin maths said that with a full season KK could comfortably get an extra 9 points (one shy of Arsenal's total last season).  You win more but probably slip a few draws that were previously won.
If they get Carroll dialed in then they could add a further 6 points.

Now I didn't think Spurs had that kind of room for improvement, but their strikers let them down badly last year.  
They might get a 6 point improvement from better strikers which puts us both very close on last year's totals.

But if we say that adding Ade and Parker alters their balance and gives them a 9 point improvement through better striker return then we HAVE to get a second striker dialled in to beat them into 4th.

Ultimately there has to be significant goals from at least 1 striker and one other source for us.  If we get Carroll dialed in we will cruise 4th.
The race is on.

Being totally outclassed by Spurs is not the end of the world.  They may not beable to replicate that form and it doesn't mean we can't beat teams both above and below them who don't have such good midfields.  

But it does reduce the wiggle room for slipping points to the Sunderland/Stokes of the world hence the urgency for KK to get it right (did you see Stoke's Begovic on MOTD2?   Leakier than a bloody used teabag against Sunderland).

Points total to be reviewed at 9 games in (1/4 of the season).  Wolves, Everton, ManUre, Norwich.

4 games to look a whole lot more convincing.  9 points from the 12 would restore a lot of smiles.

If Comolli can replicate half of what Twentyman did at the club, then we'll be laughing!

I also agree; dial in Carroll and suddenly things look a lot brighter.

Sunderland was a first game blues scenario and Stoke was 'one of those days' that could have seen us win 5-0. Spurs was just sh1t house. So in all fairness we've had 1 concerning performance.

As you say Wolves, Everton, ManUre, Norwich & 9 points from 12 and we're all a lot happier.

Johnny, I hope you're not suggesting we may may struggle with United At Anfield.

Adebayor was a smart move by Harry. IMHO - very talented and will score lots of goals for them. A little pricey at $150k/Wk, but will deliver the goods.

are they really paying that much of his wages?

Oh, I don't know. I heard he was on $150k/Wk at City and just assumed Harry picked it up.

Hey Twentyman, Enjoyed your post.
Just a few observations. Not meaning to be critical.

Today, watching our midfield, we
were just so thoroughly outclassed. I felt like I do when watching Barcelona play
other teams. Barca’s movement and pace off the ball and their placement of
passes is just so intelligent, that they can maintain possession using 3 guys
against another teams 5 guys. Tottenhams mid’s movement, pace and pass
placement left us looking helpless. (I’m not saying Tottenham are up to Barca,
just using it as an example). A few guys here mentioned that we could have
interrupted their midfield fluidity by adding another guy to midfield and not
playing so static. I just don’t agree with that observation. The gulf in class
was just too big to nullify with this tactic. Hendo young, Adam not athletic
enough (+ your observations), Lucas while a very good tackler not having great
quickness (speed), Downing best with the ball at his feet and on the move were
never going to match up with Modric, Parker, Bale and Kranjcar and the speedy
Ekotto helping out. We didn’t have the speed to match up with their speed/quickness
and intelligent movement and well placed passing. And it really showed. And let’s
not forget, all their guys are pretty well seasoned in the EPL, which allows
them to utilize those skills to the fullest. And everything just flowed
naturally from there. Their complete dominance of the midfield just shut us out
of the game to a large extent. And then when Charlie was off, it was always
going to get ugly from there.

I too very much liked Aquilani and
Meireles. Not sure KK really could really have done much to keep them here.
Aqui was only playing in Italy. And Raul got a 4 year contract and double his
wages. Not sure KK thought Raul’s contract was great business. But, I agree
with your observation that it appeared that KK preferred Charlie over Raul.
Although, Noel has written at length that he is not so certain of this. I also
feel KK would have liked to keep Raul, but not at double his salary. You made
your points about Charlie. And let me just add (while it will annoy many guys
here) that Charlie’s chance creation at Blackpool was heavily skewed by him
taking all of Blackpool’s free kicks and his 12 goals at Blackpool were skewed
by 8 penalties and 2 free kick goals. But, let me also add that I fully support
Liverpool and KK, and especially Charlie every time he steps on the pitch. As
we all do.

Agree with your observations on
Andy. We just have to find a way to use him effectively and get him some goals.
The lumping of the balls up to the kid is just not fair to him. Not sure at 22
years old, though, he is in any position to demand that we use him differently.
He is willing, as are all the guys, to be used in the way that KK sees fit.
Here again, a number of guys here have commented that his positional sense is
not great and his awareness and running is not as intelligent as it needs to be.
My sense is that it is more of a two way street thing. He needs to improve a
bit in these areas and we need to give him a bit more intelligent service and
make sure his confidence is high. As Trev has observed previously, Alan Shearer
credits KK with greatly improving his game and we have to hope he is able to do
the same for Big Andy.

I think it is fair to say that we
all love Enrique, appreciate what Downing brings to the team and feel Hendo
will improve his game over time and bring it up to what we all hope it can be.

Today was a very bitter pill.

Re: the 4v4 or 4v5 arguement:

IMO Rafa's 4-2-3-1 would have been a much better option; using two holding midfielders Spearing and Lucas to support the full backs, with Downing Henderson and Kuyt in a more advanced position behind Suarez which would have broken up Spurs 3 bands.

By having Carroll in the team Kenny should have had width and order delivery from wide areas. Even if that meant counter attacking after soaking up Spurs pressure with their superior midfield.

Its concerning that Modric/Sandro & Modric/Parker have been so superior; I really don't have faith that Adam will ever be able to dictate the tempo of a game and I just feel that we went for him for the wrong reasons.

Re: Barca

Amazingly talented footballers who work their asses off. You often see Pedro/Villa helping out the full back. Thats one hell of  combo.

Re: Aquilani/Meireles - agree with your points. If they're not happy/worth it, then you may as well cash in. My point is the type of player they are is something we need.

Re: Carroll; I mean on the pitch. i.e. "stop hoofing those cannonballs up to me and start trying to play me in on the ground once in a while. Have you seen my left foot?"

Hey Geoff. All great points. And don't forget that Aquiani will be back next year.

With a great new attitude, ready to give his all and be a world beater for LFC... Or perhaps another loan...

Come on Mike. Aquilaini and Joe Cole WILL be back in all their glory. What an awesome midfield. They got pace, guile, trickery, speed, goals, great haircuts, understanding, high press, KK's cellphone number, cars, women, beer. Shit, won't be long till we have it all again.

firstly, our system is always a flex under kenny - switches between a 4-2-2-2, 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 during the game - so the tactical set up is kind of neither here nor there from where i'm standing.  i enjoyed the critique, but i find it hard leave out downing and adam when you're talking about inventive players.  If adam is not inventive, then wtf is he?  i read nothing but constant complaints about his overly ambitious inventivness on this blog, so to suddenly discount that is kinda schizophrenic (however thats spelled!).  i REALLY liek the idea of pickin up van der wiel, but we just resigned johnson, Kelly's the early-twenties RB of the future and Flanno's our dvlpmental in the position - gotta think we're not gonna be goin all out for a new RB...  that being said, i still REALLY like the idea of van der wiel on the right.  Like a LOT.

most concerning of all the mess that was yesterday, i think, is the Carroll Suarez 'partnership' that was supposed to replace freddy (remember, 2 better than one logic?), seems like a coaching afterthought at this point.  like after they work on everything else, stretch, run, shooting, etc, in the last 5 minutes of practice they're like, "oh ya, luis! u and andy vs. danny and robbo, now!"  its like they've never met watching those two on the pitch 'together'...

i also think ur spot on with the RW thought - unfortunately that means phasing out kuyt on the right, which means pushing him to CF (where he remains our best option at the position btw), which means pushing andy to the bench, which goes back to the wtf happened to the "replacing torres with the multidimensional task force of two"...

i asked it before stoke, i asked before the game yesterday, and im still askin - what heapin pile of dogshit did flanno step in that he is suddenly unworthy of even riding in the back of the team bus...?  srsly.  you guys, im totally srsly.  someone needs to ask this question to the coaches.  i mean, if they forgot to develop the luis/andy partnership, maybe they just forgot that they have a totally serviceable RB sitting around scratchin his balls on gamedays...  if flanno played for wigan, he'd be starting every game, which means that in an emergency injury situation he should be at least able to do a job, especially when he's playin next to carra...

Downing creates chances, but he's not inventive.

Adam creates chances, but IMO he's a sub standard version of Alonso. He has a good passing range and has good set piece delivery, but he's not going to dictate the tempo of a game like Xabi did. Everything good was channeled through Xabi and he was class enough to find that extra amount of space needed to get the pass away.
Adam looks much less composed under pressure and when he has little time, his pass completion rate is poor. Possession is a simple concept, and for all the Lucas/Hendo haters, you just need to look at their pass completion rates. It's what Xavi has been doing for years.

Re Van Der Wiel; I'm only suggesting looking at RB's if Johnson's injuries are going to comntinue as a problem. Agger, Aurelio and potentially Johnson. We don't need the inconsistency forced uopon squad changes.
It's also unclear what position Kelly is likely to develop into as he could be played in his more usual CB position.

The Carrol/Suarez partnership is not working yet and unless Kenny is going to give service to Carroll through width, I don't see it blossoming (hate sounding all doom and gloom). If Kenny is truely trying to mould the side into a version of the 87 season, then Kuyt will be the best option played as the poacher, with wee Luis buzzing around him. Just in terms of the system, it might have been $35m unwisely spent.

RW is a problem if we wat to get Carroll into the game and have wing play option, because Kuyt/Hendo/Gerrard or whoever gets played out there won't be a natural winger in the type of player I we would expect to be playing on wings - you think Nani/Hazard/Marin etc.

Re Flanno - i said it on redtrev's post - a natural rb is a better option for me rather than a shoe horned in player, so whilst I understand the talk about protecting him against the likes of Bale, the dent to his confidence for not even being selected must be pretty hard as well.

Yesterday, with "beachball" Mike Riley the system was certainly under flux. We almost saw our first 2-4-2 formation. Can't really argue too much with the cards and certainly not blaming the ref. Charlie left his studs on Parker's knee and as a few guys have observed, Skrtel can pose unique challenges to any ref, and his foul was not a good one. And the ref was not our 1st, 2nd or even 7th issue of the day, as Noel pointed out. Still, I gotta say, that motherfucker!
We were never gonna cope with their midfield. Even if we suited up KK, Comolli and Clarkey. They were always gonna control the game from there.
We'll see what KK has in store for Brighton, Wolves at home and Everton at Goodison.

Of course, I meant, that Motherfucker Mike JONES!!!!!

thinking they didn't want to expose Flanno to Bale in his tender years, preferring experience of Skyrtel.

Great posts guys.

My guess too Johnny. Destroy a kids fragile confidence and it may be lost for quite while. KK
was sensitive to the risk. 

I'm too busy drowning my sorrows to say anything but ouch.
I'd say more but all of my teams lost this weekend, I'm beginning to think it'd be to everyone's benefit if I just stop watching professional athletics altogether, I mean, holy fuck.
And no, this isn't me being melodramatic whatsoever.

Your watching the games doesn't really affect the outcome, even though we all think it does. And stop being a melodramatic, moody and sullen woman. We already have Sue for that. It's the drinking part that I really admire, though.

I only aspire to be as great a borderline alcoholic as so many contributors to this site and its comments.

Also, as a woman, melodramatic, moody, and sullen are the only three adjectives that anyone of my gender is capable of feeling.

don't forget the 'we have to re-decorate this whole damn place. Now!' adjective.

Who the hell here is 'borderline,' SHY? Go big or go home. Put down the cosmo, pour a scotch neat, and come slap us around a bit. It's not like Ed will put up a fight. 

Melodramatic, moody and sullen...sweet sonny Jesus, that sounds like most of London, every hipster I've run across (and over), and Arsene Wenger. Wait...I just made your point didn't I?

Xabi boy. Very funny. The only thing that is keeping me somewhat sane after the past two weeks is watching the exquisite goings on in London. They thought the riots were bad. The Arsenal has the city all on full psychotic breakdown. Losing to Blackburn, almost tieing Swansea at Home. 4 points in five games. 17th place!

Was trying to be funny, but it was late, and I came off as a dick. Oh well, won't be the last time, I'm sure.

And I too want to see ShedYourYellow slap Ed and Noel around a bit. Ed won't mind too much, but Noel has been known to get a little feisty.

I've heard Ed likes that sort of thing - allegedly.

I just read someone say something about the Rafa. Any word on what he's up to these days? Not because I want Kenny sacked and replaced by Benitez, but he's not exactly pimping himself like Woy so I haven't heard of anything in the news about him. 

Last time I heard he started his own website http://rafabenitez.com/ and is working as a commentator for Eurosport.

What's the worst thing you can hear while you're blowing Willie Nelson? 

...

...

...

"I'm not Willie Nelson." 

*Yeah, I stole that one...bastards. Drinks for everyone. Yes. You too, Sue.*

Never mind boy's. Next year will be our year ! Dream on.

We're all understandably traumatised by that horror-show earlier and opinions will understandably differ on where the blame lies...and people love a bit of blame-apportioning, don't they?
Of course, to see reactionary caps-lock twats on here screaming moronic abuse at the manager fills me with disgust and as I don't share the gandhi-esque patience of others I struggle to tolerate or understand that level of idiocy. Just bore-off and scream your shit at your fellow mouth-breathers on talk-sport.

Kenny may have dropped the ball with the starting 11 in hindsight. Could Flanno have been more of a liability than Skrtel? Was Carroll worth a starting place ahead of Dirky? Was Hendo?

Adam was unfortunate to be sent off. There was no intent in the second challenge. That said, he had started poorly and looked lethargic and casual in his few contributions before forcing the hand of a trigger happy ref. His fault? Probably. Might Jones have used his head? Probably.

Once he was gone, should Carroll really have stayed on the pitch? Especially when he was effectively operating on the flanks and reduced to duelling aerially for long diagonal balls. His many knock-downs found no supporting red shirts. No lack of effort from the kid and his link-up was solid but he wasn't in the positions to influence the play. Truthfully, we need a lot more from the guy.

Suarez will be forgiven by most for his petulant, dummy-spitting performance today. These are the same one-eyed types who forgave every Torres strop last season. I'm not so sure. If he was knocking in goals and terrorrising defences then that becomes tolerable, but when he's not.....
Of course he must be frustrated by the lack of quality around him on a day like today and of course the guy is outrageously talented but Downing, Hendo, Carroll, Enrique and Lucas all got verbals off the little Uruguayan for what he saw as inadequate passing or support. No problem that he has high standards and has a moan (Carra) but worryingly, for the second game in a row, that's all I can remember about his performance. If it's ok to berate Carroll and demand more then surely we can expect more from Luis?

Downing and Henderson had days to forget, the former being virtually anonymous and the latter huffing and puffing to very little avail. Lucas found himself over-run and couldn't get anything going. To be fair Spurs midfield 3 were just superior from the k.o. and it might have been an idea to match them up. As it was we never managed a period of midfield dominance and that means you need a resolute defence and a sharp counter-attack. We had neither today.

Does this mean that all our players and coaching staff are suddenly shit and we're going down? Well of course not, despite the knee-jerkery of some and the just plain jerkery of others on twitter and the phone-ins.

The manager has some problems and they may or may not be critical. At the moment, we are reeling from getting our arses handed to us by a good side in a game that had gone away from us from early on. Adam and Skrtel suspended may mean that Coates and Gerrard or Kuyt start next time out. We played our pass and move against Stoke but today we were simply inept. The level of performance was as poor as it ever was under the Hodge or in Rafa's last days. That can happen. It cannot become a pattern or a habit.

Optimistic wittering about the future seems silly tonight, even though I'm naturally positive. Let's compromise and realistically expect that Kenny and the lads will put this right and get results against a good Brighton side and a Wolves outfit we owe one.

 Let's be magnanimous and fair enough to say well done to Spurs tonight, because they were better from minute one. Unpleasant but true. However, we support LFC and our club is on the up despite today. Breathe fellas.....

Excellent questions Trev; I'll give you my pennies worth:

I'm always of the opinion that you play the strongest player for that position, so for me an inexperienced Flanagan is better than a shoehorned in Skrtel.

Why play Carroll with a narrow left hand side and an invered winger on the right? Kuyt/Bellamy should have started.

Adam does not look good when under pressure or with little time on the ball.

Over the course of 38 games, this may be a very small blemish and these tactical and personnel problems may very well get sorted out. But these parts do need to get sorted out to get the red machine back in full effect.

Cheers Geoff. We seem to be in agreement and I enjoyed your last line. Reminded me of Brian Moore's line from the Anfield Rap!! Aldo and Kenny in day-glo shellsuits...halcyon days my friend.

First on Dalglish's agenda has to be to instill some fighting spirit in this team.  A lot of them are new, and almost all of them haven't grown up in the Liverpool way.  Rafa had some of it but nowhere near the bootroom era that Dalglish knows, and of course six months under Roy would destroy any semblance of Liverpool spirit they had left. 

At LFC eleven men fight tooth and nail for the shirt every week, and if it's ten men then they fight even harder.  None of the head-dropping, half-hearted runs, complaining about lack of support, self-pity, giving 90% and hoping it's enough.  Granted, this team hasn't had enough time to get that from Kenny yet.  And I'm sure he chose them partly because he feels he can mould them into the kind of winners that the club has thrived on in years gone by.  But that's a work in progress that can't come fast enough.  

Giving players space for an off day is fine.  It happens.  Waiting for tactics to be sorted out and getting it wrong sometimes is fine.  The team is still new.  But to have the opposition fight harder than Liverpool and want it more - that's not the Liverpool way.  Kenny needs to hammer that home.

Agreed Red2death. Anything but total commitment just isn't acceptable and today we saw our team second to almost everything, failing to press the opposition in their half and, worst of all, inviting them on to us deep in our own half. This, allied to a lack of guile and an attacking performance that never happened, does not a pretty picture make. We knew in our hearts this wouldn't be a quick fix but if we must lose it can't be as limply as today.

Kenny is a winner all his life and a ruthless s.o.b. when it's needed. We need to have faith that he will sort this. In his first campaign I remember we looked out of it and were 13 pts off the pace. That was the double season. No such glory in the offing this season but the potential remains. Being patient, however, is disinctly unpleasant.

Dammit Trev, quit being so rational, level-headed and articulate. 

Sorry man, I'm an asshole

Yea Trev. I am not even going to read your post until tomorrow. I know its going to be all reasonable and logical and will probably calm me down. You being the ultimate Redman and gentleman and all. But, right now I just want to be Fucking crazy.

Fucking crazy is good JPR. After the worst day of sport in recent memory, I'm currently en route to a nice bar I know where I may end up fairly fucking crazy myself

Your posts are the best thing to read after a good or bad game.

Cheers man, appreciate it.

Would've rather beaten Stoke and lost to Spurs.  If we can win all the small games, who cares what happens in the big ones.

Then again, we didn't actually beat Stoke.

if we are allowed to pull other lfc managers apart then we must admit kk got it wrong today.

I urge all fans to join me in ringing the club tomorrow morning to demand the firing of Dalglish. The man is a complete bluffer and Comolli,Clarke and Keen should be turfed out as well. This performance was worse then anything even Hodgson dished up.

Kenny I am guessing you don't remember the 'Hodgson era'. Trust me our performances under Hodgson were a lot worse. (Remember the Mersyside derby for one?) Funny thing is that now WBA fans have started to criticize and see Hodgson for what he is. But I digress.

The inner workings of the fickle fan always make me chuckle to myself. Had we beaten Spurs yesterday, CL qualification would have been a shoe in, we have put the Stoke result behind us, the players are beginning to gel, onward and upward etc etc etc.

The fact that everything went wrong yesterday and the team has put in a bad performance in ONE game so far this season has evoked a huge anti- Dalglish agenda, relegation beckons, transfer funds have been wasted, doom and gloom etc etc etc.

People need to relax and roll with the punches, LFC will not win every game this season despite fans wanting that. You don't qualify for the CL after playing 5 games. We don't win the league after 5 games. So before everybody catches Abramovich syndrome and demands the sacking of the manager after every bad result. I have four words four you...

CHILL THE FUCK OUT!

You forget about the 115 million Dalglish has spent since January. You forget about the 2 points dropped against the might of Sunderland. You forget that they had 70 minutes to equalize against Stoke and could not even manage that. You forget that Andy Carroll still looks like a bad signing. You forget that we only have one serious goal threat. You forget that the team has too many players with little or no pace. You forget we only lost 2-0 to Everton in that game. The problem with certain fans is that they believe certain managers are infallible and cannot be questioned.

Not at all, no manager is infallible! I would definitely have started
with Kuyt yesterday, Henderson still has a lot to prove to everybody
before he can be considered LFC quality. As for Andy Carroll, forget
about his price for the moment, he is young, raw and has bags of
potential to become one of the deadliest strikers in the Premiership.

Okay... I am guessing you are one of those fans that still believe that Lucas is useless, Hodgson should have been given more time and that you are only a true Liverpool fan if you attend every home game ......

Here is the bottom line Jack, at the moment LFC can not lure the top players because we can not offer CL football. Any person writing a teams chances off after 5 games seriously needs to have their head examined. All teams need time to gel, players need time to work into a cohesive unit. So 'kenny' judge the team after 38 games and a full season, you may be pleasantly surprised!

there's no doubt the team that ends the season will look very different to the one that has started it.

Wrong answer I'm afraid. Football is a simple game to follow, any observer can see that the pieces Dalglish has assembled will not fit together. Playing a left winger on the rightwing is ridiculous especially away from home. Playing Carroll is just a waste of time because it is clear that our coaching staff are not giving him any advice, he looks lost. Kuyt would have made no difference yesterday, he is yet another player with no pace.

all managers are bluffers to an extent Kenny.  I agree that this was definitely a horrendous result but Liverpool were pretty abject a few times last season.  The problem with some of our losses under Dalglish is that the players and Dalglish tend to look like they have no idea what they are doing or how to fix it and his substitutions, even in wins, are always at least 15 minutes late

Agree that more proactivity is needed during games.

That's not a very nice thing to say about a fellow Kenneth.

Yeah, that'll work too.

Did anyone else notice that we couldn't even make it pass the halfway mark on the pitch? We would pass it around until we either lost the ball or passed it  back and back and back all the way to reina so we could either try (unsuccessfully) again or someone decides to hoof it forward hoping torres....i mean suarez...could get the ball. It seems like we're back to a season or two ago when we we were putting way to much pressure on torres to do it all. He eventually caved and broke, I mean look at him now at chelsea. Can't even finish against manu today with a wide open net. And now we're breaking suarez? Of course I could be over reacting to a single game but truth be told I do not have confidence in our squad at the moment...i was not pleased at all with the transfer season. Not trying to put down Liverpool by any means. Just very very concerned

So I think we can all agree to never play a center-back at right-back ever again.  Why do we have to have TWO injury prone right-backs?

Kennetholeary stuff your BS man. KK is still the right man for the job. In case a newb like you doesnt remeber SAF was ONE game from getting his sorry ass fired. Besides back then SAF was not hounded by instant mass media like these days. You could lick your wounds in relative quiet. Thats how SAF built his team. Give KK time. Defeats like these are all part of the learning curve which admittedly these days is very steep and very short. I wonder if KK did more harm by criticizing the refs? Today may have been payback. you hit on us, we send your players off.

Dalglish has not got a clue what he is doing. Your comparison with Ferguson is ridiculous, Ferguson spent a pittance in those years compared to what Dalglish has spent since January. Dalglish's attempts to be all pally with the players has not worked, they do not fear the manager like United's players do. Dalglish is tactically inept. LFC could not beat Stoke but yet Sunderland put 4 past them.

If Dalglish hasn't had a clue of what he's doing then we'd probably been relegated in the past season.

Comparisons between people are never fair, but not ridiculous. They each have their pros and cons. But saying that Fergie's spent only a pittance compared to what Kenny has done is completely ignoring value in terms if inflation. A bowl of noodles in the past might cost 50 cents and is worth the same now albeit in terms of a 5 dollar value. 

Tactically inept? Kenny might not be better than Rafa in that aspect, but what was it that managed us the victory against stoke & chelsea last season? 

As for stoke's loss to sunderland, they're understandably poor on the roads and just came on the back of a Europa game. No excuses that we failed to beat them but you might want to wait till the end of the season or even half of it to see how many beat them on their own ground before concluding.

For a fan that's been one from 1977, you've got some serious issues with your knee being so jerky. 

Being a fan since 1977 I have seen good LFC managers and substandard managers and Dalglish is clearly not up to the job. Any guy in the stand could have figured out how to beat Stoke at Anfield and Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. Steve Bruce managed a 3-0 win at Chelsea last season.

 I respectfully disagree. The only thing fergie has achieved at united is longevity. What 3 cups in 30 years is something to shout about?haha. Obviously your a newb and so its forgiven that you think dalglish doesnt know what he is doing. You prob grew up on united and fergie and thats all you know. But lets not forget dalglish was the first every player manager (do you even know what an accomplishment that is?) and won the league and cup double in 1986 in only his second year the LFC. Like i said you know nothing about the past or dalglish so its not important what you think. And speaking of ridiculous comparisons "lfc could not beat stoke..."etc....so we beat united, and city last year...so what is your mindless point?

what are you talking about?  Your points are all over the place and your facts are wrong.

I am a LFC fan actually since 1977. How long are you a fan of LFC? Dalglish's double was in his first season not his second. Ferguson has been manager of United for 25 years and not 30. Last season we also lost to rubbish like Blackpool, West Ham and West Brom, so your point is what?

Something is horribly wrong when Spurs can whip LFC like bad stepchildren.

I love articles like these just stating the obvious. Everything the writer said KK said id already in his post match comments. You ob dont just move on from a game like this, you damn well analyse every single morbid aspect from start to finish so you dont repeat it. I do think dalglish needs to rethink his own strategies etc. He says no one will play except on merit at LFC but the british players have not earned (except by their off field comments) the right to wear the LFC shirt. They do indeed look, overpaid, useless and ,today, unmotivated. I've always said dalglish is a mirror to SAF. Well, time for dalglish to find a better balance between home grown and foreign players just like SAF, because british alone is not going to get the job done. Esp not in creativity. Its too bad dalglish never followed up on Diego, they sure coulda used him out there today.

I don't know if you're using "love" sarcastically, but if not, thanks. If so, you know, whatever.

Ed. My neighbors are thankful that you wrote todays article and kept in concise. If Noel had written it and included all of his perceptive analysis and convincing logic I would be out right now hunting my neighborhood with my 12 gauge. (I actually really enjoy both you guys, its just a bad day today).

Glad I could avoid providing analysis and logic.

*cue Charlie Brown music*

Wasn't being critical, pal. As you mentioned, an actual game recap would have been sadistic. There is still grave danger afoot. When Noel gets to the bad news later this week, as he inevitably will, I am afraid I may yet be targeting the neighbors.
 

Oh, I was being completely sarcastic. After the way most of the comments have gone today, taking any chance to be light-hearted.

When I saw that Skrtel was up against Bale pre-match I felt very worried.  When he got that first booking the writing was on the wall.  I consider it a tactical error by the manager to leave him in that position when just one more ill considered tackle against a quick opponent would see him leave the pitch.  Should have moved him to the middle and moved Carragher to the right.  Carragher would have dealt with Bale no better, but he is much more match smart and we would have had 10 men on the pitch. 

Can't understand why Kuyt wasn't put on, his work rate makes up for lack of numbers.

Suarez needs to calm himself down - needless bookings are crazy.

I'VE FOUND A POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are only 3 pts behind Chelski who are in 3rd.

Shame we haven't played a big team yet.......

Leave it to you to find a positive Johnny. In the points. Justin above found a positive in gettin our asses kicked and bringing the boys closer together. I don't think I'm going to be able to handle too many more positives today.

I know they are totally suckin' it easy this season, but Arsenal are still a big team. defensively, they are not. but Van Persie, Arshavin, Walcott, and Gervinho is quite an attack. And Tottenham just showed today that they are still a big team. 

But yes, that is a positive. Since I want to get my mind off the game, I'm just gonna rank my opinions of the premier league threats(to Liverpool):

1. Manchester United
2. Manchester City
3. Tottenham
4. Arsenal
5. Chelsea
6. Everton
7. Newcastle
8. Sunderland
9. Aston Villa
10. Stoke City
11. blablalblalblalbla

I base that on absolutely nothing. 

arsenal before chelsea?

Yup. Seems we schooled Chelski with a double last season, even at their own bridge. And That's even with a Hodgson victory. No problems, Smurfs. 

So. 

I'm thinking my liver will fail before we win the title. 

I had a heroin relapse.  Houston has some lousy smack.

Wow i can't believe some of the comments below...

I think that Ed put it well in his "summary". Actually this whole mess could have been summed up with a few dozen of words only: We were shite. The ref was shite but that was secondary. Got to learn the lessons and bounce back. Bring on Brighton and Wovles. YNWA

From the moment we got sucker-punched from Raul, this club has been lost in a dark cloud of dysfunctional suckage.  Don't get me wrong, I am NOT implying a direct correlation (he hadn't seen much of the pitch regardless), I'm just saying that Liverpool seems to have lost its mojo from that exact day forward, and the result has been the most shambolic couple of weeks I can remember for a long while.

I myself have been stuck in the that negative cloud ever since Meireles left and Bellamy came in. I was a huge fan of Meireles and quite frankly am "against" Bellamy. I let the Adam and Henderson transfers slide, but I wasn't the biggest fan of those either. Not that I have anything against the lads, I just thought Adam wasn't what we needed and we paid way too much for Henderson. We really needed a win here to bring us out of that dark cloud. Sad ain't it, that we couldn't do that because of a tactical cock-up and a lack of luck with the cards (get it?). 

Liverpool started very slow today and Charlie Adam looked a liability in defence, Modric then scored a stunner and we couldn't recover. Red cards then killed off any hope of  a comeback. Carragher also looked past it, if anybody bothers to watch the 4th goal it is unforgivably slack the way he walked back to play spurs onside. Jamie is an absolute legend but that was just terrible play from the captain. 

Today was shit but this is a young side which will improve. Only benefits I can see is that Coates should get some gametime in the next couple weeks with Skrtel suspended and Agger injured (sigh), and Carroll got 90mins. Maybe I'm blind but I didn't mind what I saw from Carroll today - it was a bit odd seeing him slightly deeper but his link up play was decent (while there were players on the field to link to) and he almost scored at the death.

Carroll looked to be working very hard without the ball didn't loose his cool 

we were never in the race for the midfield.  Modric, Parker owned it.  We should have seen that coming and had someone else in there with Lucas and Adam.

Spurs only play through their midfielders, stop that and you stop their game.  Tactical mistakes.

Sometimes you just get a shitty referee. But watching the Utd-Chelsea game, it's ridiculous that they can have a free flowing game with Phil Dowd but we're stuck with Mike Jones.

2 Offside goals, 1 dive, and a goal of pure luck. This game is absurd. Not as absurd as as 4-0 at white hart lane. but still. 

None of those were really phil dowd's fault. He reffed a good game, regardless of how his assistants were.

Oh ok.  Having not watched the game and only read the reports, I was about to give Utd credit where it's due for beating a side fair and square for once.  

Guess I was wrong.  It was just classic Utd then?

Very classic. First goal was a 50/50 offside, and of course, at Old Trafford, it goes in Mancs favor. Nani started his run for the second goal while being a good yard or more offside. Nice goal, But of course no credit was given to Chelsea's offside trap, because it's typical United. 3rd goal was due to effort in keeping the ball in the box, hoping it would fall in magically. And it did. In my opinion, It was a draw, but Manchester had some luck, like always. And ya, it might not have been a dive, but anytime Nani falls to the ground begs to question.

The way I see it, if all the missed chances went in (Berba, Ramires, Torres, Rooney), and the offsides goals weren't counted, it was Chelsea 3-3 Manchester. 

I see.  Thanks Ryan.

Ok, I guess it's all normal then.  Utd flukes another 3 points.  The world keeps on turning.  Hell remains hot.  Pigs remain grounded.

In the other end of England, TORRES SCORES ON THE MANCS!!!!

and then proceeds to reinvent himself as a youtube sensation in the worst possible way..

damn it. 

If LFC is Samuel L. Jackson, and the Stoke match was "Unbreakable" (decent effort, good ideas, executed poorly)...then today was "Snakes on a Plane". Just a cluster-fuck from start to finish.

We need more "Time to Kill" less "Great White Hype".

I'm off to drink a "Sphere" of "Jackie Brown".

Wait, you seriously didn't like Snakes on a Plane? Were you not in on the joke or something?

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... i will NOT have no Muthafuckin quips about that Muthafuckin flick.  If ever there was an achievement in cinemategraphical Muthafuckin Excellence it was gettin all dem Muthafuckin Snakes on that Muthafuckin Plane.  B'leedat.  Nothin anyone says - and that includes Dr. Cock n' Balls over here - will change that.  Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttt.

Play nice, nerds.