Roy The Unsackable, and Other Thursday Notes

Why do you Liverpool fans think you have a god given right to win? your glory days have gone.
I still rate hodgson, the problem is that your squad is shit! torres has been living off his reputation for 2 years now for both club and country.
Fair enough if hodgson was doing this at barca but he's not! He has a mediocre mid-table squad at his disposal and look where you are in the league. Mid table.
Back your manager, let him re-build the team and then you might see progress in the foreseeable future.

I hope I'm not out of line here, but your call to stick with Hodgson wouldn't have anything to do with speculation that Coyle would be, in the eyes of many, myself included, his ideal replacement? Not that self interest is a bad thing. I'm all for it.

I take it your a whiteman danny? If so you are basking currently in the warm glow of what a young, energetic, clever media-savvy and tactically astute manager can do for a club. Coyle is the antithesis of the hodge. To address your question, we redmen certainly don't feel we have "a god given right to win". Where were you for the nineties?! The following decade was a different story. RedGed re-introduced us to winning pots for the cupboard, then gave way to the portly spanish genius who brought home 'bigears' and made us the best team in europe over 5 years to 2008/9. a season and a half does not make us suddenly, "mediocre mid-table" in stature, despite the results. Remember the treatment of the unpopular megson before lecturing us on how we should "back the manager" and i cannot wait to witness the soon-to-come time when LFC will show that our "glory days" have far from "gone".....thanks for stopping by

Aye, well, if you still rate him you're free to take him. Also, it's funny you should mention Barcelona, since they were the club that sent the most players to the world cup. Bet you'll never guess which club full of mid-table mediocrity came in second, but in any case it's kind of you to let us know that all we should aspire to the sort of hoof and hope football Shankly left behind and a manager who throws his players under the bus and only sees the club as a paycheque.

how is, how many players you have sent to the world cup relevant?
and i'm trying to point out that you cant expect to get results consistently with the squad you have, regardless of the manager. Benitez could'nt, hodgson cant and i fully expect the next bloke to come along wont either, if he inherits your current squad

It's relevant because if the squad was complete shit it wouldn't have had the second most representatives at the Wold Cup after Barcelona--more than Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Inter, AC, Juve, Real, etc., etc., etc. That may not tell you everything, as certainly this isn't a title caliber side, but given the lack of serious injuries compared to last season when most of this squad--again, wracked by injuries, and also without Hodgson's foolish additions like Konchesky and Poulsen--managed to at least qualify for Europe and play an at least comparatively enjoyable brand of football, this is not a side that should be staring down a relegation dogfight.

A quality, modern, tactically aware manager who hadn't wasted what transfer budget he did have to actively downgrade the squad would be able to at least challenge for the top four. That isn't a stretch. Hodgson is just a mediocre manager beholden to a prehistoric tactical approach. He plays ugly football--and he aspires to play ugly football, and the players he has brought in and talked of bringing in only attest to that--he blames a different person every week but he never does the slightest thing wrong, and he constantly diminishes expectations.

I'm sure Sky Sports told you we have a shit squad, but we really don't. Not nearly this shit. At least not if it wasn't hamstrung by the gross incompetence of a man with a career bureaucrat's mindset.

Actually Bayern Munich had second most representitives but i get your point..

I don't think any fan is expecting to win the title with this squad. But there's a big difference between getting 3rd-7th and being en route to a relegation dogfight. With this same squad, Rafa got 7th, which was deemed not good enough for the players he had on hand and he was sacked - and rightly so. Now Hodgson has taken this same group of players (fair comparison?) and can't get anywhere close to even Rafa's worst season.

But let's not make it all about Rafa. This is just about comparing squad potential. We know aren't championship material at this point. At the same time, we're also not relegation standard. Is it unreasonable to expect that a squad with the likes of Gerrard, Torres, Reina, Lucas, Meireles, Johnson would be able to do better Stoke's squad? Blackburn? Sunderland? Blackpool?

This is not about expecting Hodgson to deliver the title in his first season. But there is a reasonable expectation that he will enable the squad to at least come close to their average potential - not even punch above their weight, just not punch too far below it. And even with this bare minimum standard, he has failed consistently.

fair points, the liverpool squad has deteriorated significantly in the past 2 years due to the fact of selling quality players and then buying absolute rubbish in replacement (aquilani for Alonso and then poulson for mascherano).
I totally agree with when you say most fans should be expecting europa places at least but i feel many of your squad are living of their reputation. (torres has not recaptured his 09/10 form since, gerrard spent large swathes of this season injured, babel still pretending to be the dutch prodigy.)
Do you think your squad really has enough quality in depth to be challenging for 3rd to 7th? more so than the likes of everton? Villa? Spurs?

Yes, I do believe that this Liverpool squad is at least able to challenge Villa, Spurs, Everton. I mean, if we play good positive tactical football and we put up a good fight, and in the end we still lose out on even a Europa spot, even then many people would be complaining a lot less. What galls every fan is bad tactics, bad attitude, lack of ambition, bad decisions in the transfer market, and bad decisions on the pitch.

Also, I feel that players can't be judged completely on their individual performances, because how well the play is often subject to what system they're being asked to play in. For example, Agger at left-back isn't half as good as Agger in central defence, but if he's asked to play there he will because he's a professional. Similarly, Torres being played as a target man for long punts wouldn't be half as good as Torres supported by a dominant pressing midfield. And that goes for Gerrard, Johnson, Meireles, even Poulsen the supposed dud - you'll see that some people here are holding back judgement on him because maybe he's just a victim of the tactics he's playing in.

In some respects it's down to the players, but in many ways it isn't. There's a reason why Meireles can be fantastic for Portugal one week and then be anonymous for Liverpool the next. Or why Gerrard can give a captain's performance for England yet not influence the game at Anfield. Kuyt is a pivotal attacker for Holland who made it to the World Cup Final, Lucas is a regular lynchpin in Brazil's first choice midfield, even Johnson is a much better player in England white than Liverpool red. Yet, they seem to be shit at club level. It's not that the players have changed for sure... it's not the shirt... it's not the fans... what could account for such a drastic difference? You know my answer. Tactics and teammates, both of which are ultimately decided by the manager.

Of all the points brought out first by Danny, and I assume he is a Bolton fan(BWFC), it sudden struck me, to get a mix feeling towards our current players and the Manager. I too was very disappoint with Roy, and had enjoy reading articlle about fans condemning him, and join the rant of him occassionally. But now it take a non-Liverpool fan to remind us about our squads and at some point I agree with him.
There are 2-3 very good players left us without the best replacement, namely Alsono, Masc and Benaynou. 1 left during Rafa time. To look at the squad, I only regard Reina, Gerrard & Torres are Top player. To be Honest, Torres has been living with his past reputation that we fans still adorn him even he is not performancing for some time and still rate him one of our top player ( like I just did). Time when some said he was dis-interested in the games but qiuckly many come out to back him.And Torres don't feature much in Spain squad in the world club.
The next level of player will be G Johnson, Kuyt, Agger, Raul M, Carra, Lucas and probably Joe Cole. Of this group, Johnson still suffer in his defending ability, probably put him to Right Wing, will make him a better player. Kuyt to me was over his peak, his touches were heavy, he lost his pace, after all he was famous for his work rate rather than skill and creativity. Carra was over the hill too. Joe Cole seem not able to fix in, while Raul M may not be bought in the 1st place if we did not loan out our Aquaman.
The further level down of players include some players that are not given more playing time to prove themselves, such as Jova, Babel, Kelly, also players like Skrtel, Ngog, Aurelio, Maxi.
Rafa make a mistake to want to off-load Alsono to try buy Barry, publicly. I think Alsono do not want to leave, he was seem a couple of time attending Liverpool matches.
Insua, Aquaman & Benayou, I am not too sure about their own stand, if they are not the ones who want to go, it will be a poor decision by Roy to let them go. U do not need Raul M, PK and Pouslen to join if those still around.
What Liverpool lack are wingers and players that can hold the ball well, such as Tevez, Silva, Farebagas, and any players from the final third of Bacrelona, who are short and clever with the ball. Liverpool really need 2 of such kind of players to make a complete squad.
I have see enough on our current players, not very comfortable holding up the ball, it seem to me that they are going to loose them the next moment, especially Kuyt, Torres. The best they can do is to release the ball fast before the defenders come after them.
Having said that, I still think we have the squad that able to hold up to 9th-13th position without relegation threat, which we are not as comfortable.
My comments here may not be very popular since I rant more on players rather than the manager.

I am fairly certain every driver in that video was female..

Well, perhaps. Assuming one buys into the generalisation that bad women drivers tend to be nervous and indecisive while bad male drivers tend to be overaggressive and unobservant. If that were the case, the male dominated version might have involved more drunks in pick up trucks plowing through bus stops full of people, and that wouldn't have worked so well for the whole "trying to lighten the mood" thing I was going for.

Oh, I was just saying that every time you see the driver get out of one of the offending cars, it actually was a female.

Literalism seizes the day.

Doesn't it always? I think I'm just a touch on edge given that the last few posts have seen more than the usual number of... let's say iffy comments. Right then, carry on, everybody.

I can see how you would take my comments as some sort of observation on society, so all good. The more pertinent question is when is a woman going to crash into Roy Hodgson?

That might just make him a more sympathetic figure to some.

(not if it kills him, he can have all the sympathy he wants and we'll have a new manager)

Noel, just put this on the Twitter, but I figured you'd enjoy the read:

Must read for all the wrong reasons: Garry Birtles' column http://bit.ly/fQkrFr Brimming with insight. Reads like a 4th grade book report

Dear god that's painful.

Not to mention an insult to fourth grade book reports everywhere.

All those short declarative sentences.

Broken by nearly arbitrary periods in an attempt to create a feeling of insight and impact.

This despite the fact there isn't an ounce of insight or genuine impact to be found anywhere therein.

All those single-sentence paragraphs. Very nearly a parody of tabloid journalism.

Though one could hardly credit that numpty with the intelligence to attempt parody.

Deep down, I feel dumber for having read that.

And I blame you for that.

My personal favorite was this sequence:

"If that is not a shock, then consider how many times Manchester United have won away this season.

Not sure? Well I'll tell you. They have won just once."

From now on I'm writing everything in this style. Don't believe me? Well I'll show you.

OH MY GOD IT GETS BETTER

http://www.thisisnottingham.co...

I enjoyed that.

Until I started to say to myself, "Son, this one seems just a touch longer than the last."

Then I skimmed down.

And my brain turned to goo.

He really does make the usual punditry suspects look like MENSA members.

I should really stop doing this.

OK, I give up. I admit it. I can't figure out what's going through the minds of the people in charge at FSG. Along with Noel, I believe that the recent leak about FSG's opinion of Roy was intended to reduce fan tensions and calm things down to the point where the owners' plans could stay on track. But the defeat to Blackburn--complete with reversion to tactics that have been discredited time and time again--should have made it clear that any confidence John Henry & co. have in Roy is woefully misplaced. And yet, perplexingly, inexplicably, Roy remains in charge.

At this point, the only conclusion I can draw is that FSG have decided to stick with Hodgson for whatever reason, and nothing--nothing--is going to alter their purpose. They've developed a plan and appear to be determined to adhere to it no matter the circumstances. Which is unfortunate, because they're risking some really negative outcomes, for themselves and the club. I don't think they want LFC to be relegated, and I'm sure they don't want a full-fledged fan revolt, but if they keep this up, they may get both.

My guess is that they've told Hodgson that he's going to be fired but seeing as how Kenny is currently on a Mediterranean/Arabian cruise, there's little point in giving Roy the boot when Kenny isn't even in town to take over. My bet is that Roy gets the sack following the game at the weekend or whenever Kenny gets back in town. Roy was seen hauling some large bags out of Melwood this morning, which is a fairly strong suggestion that he knows the end is near.

Not to mention that it likely takes a day or two to sift through the contract to determine what exactly Roy is owed upon contract termination. Legally, sacking a manager is more complicated than simply telling them to pack their bags- you have to make sure the offered compensation is correct otherwise you put yourself at risk for a suit for damages or an injunction blocking termination until proper compensation is determined.

Bottom line, I wouldn't worry much unless Roy is still in place a week from now, in which case I would think there was some new development with Kenny taking over.