Moving on from League Cup Victory, and Other Tuesday Notes

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"Yet with Carroll out of form and often out of the side, Downing has less of a purpose..." Apparently it's Andy Carroll's fault that Stewart Downing blows.

So whats the word on Daniel Agger? News says he's pulling out of international duty because of his ribs. Is this the same broken rib thing he was dealing with against Spurs last fall? 

 correct *way* :)

 I think once Guardiola has grown tired of managing Barcelona and requires a new challenge. The lure of managing a big club like Liverpool in the Premiership would be a very tempting concept. Especially with the available funds from FSG now in place. Liverpool is now being run in the correct wasy, as a successful football club should. I think we would be a attractive propostion for any manager.

One trophy in the bag takes the pressure off somewhat. FSG have invested £100m into the team and in their first full season they have a trophy! Add a potential FA Cup and a 4th place to that list and every Liverpool fan would be nursing a hangover to end all hangovers. However, one step at a time.... But imagine we don't! Yes we won on Sunday, but the amount of chances wasted was a cause for concern. It has been the constant thorn in our side all season. I think we had nigh on 40 attempts at goal and only scored the one in normal time. Dirk scored a great goal in ET, but the game should have been sewn up by then. Obviously had Glen Johnson shot gone in it could have been a totally different game and we could have easily gone on to win it 3-0.

My point is this trophy gives Kenny another season at least to prove he is the man for the near future. Now allow me to play Devil's Advocate My question to my fellow Liverpool supporters on here is... Ahem!

Should the likes of Mourinho, Guardiolla or hell even Rafa Benitez become available this summer... Would you take them to manage Liverpool or would you give Kenny another season?

Jose Mourinho can fuck right off, end of.

right off and right on!

 So thats one no for Mourinho lol! How about the likes of Guardiola or good ol' Rafa?

Fuck Jose Mourinho right up his stinkin ass. Let him go back to Chelsea or to United.

 He can't handle the Prem League anymore as it is, so I agree, let him fuck off!!!

After winning some silverware it wouldn't be the first thing I'd think to have a conversation about, but at the very least I don't consider either personally loathsome and both are at least willing to play attractive football if they have the tools available with which to do so.

I would shy away from Rafa despite being a fan because going back is always a dicey proposition and I don't think FSG would entertain having him, having already picked one manager from the past.

they would go for their own pick this time, but Guardiola might not be a fit given the top end players (ie budget) he may wish to work with.  I can see Abramovich going for him.

But the real question for each summer is a real one - how to proceed compared to the previous summer until we're challenging for 3rd or better.  

Last summer Kenny's unleashing of the existing squad very  successfully [compared to Hodgson] got him the 3 year contract but who's picks were CHAD (were they comolli propositions?) and how are FSG judging those picks now.

I can see them certain to keep Kenny on as Manager - assuming we don't fall apart from here but you might think they want to see a different transfer outcome in the summer with some searching questions on cutting edge, assuming performance levels don't change come the summer.

If CHAD were 70%+ Kenny's preferences because they had wanted to give him his picks to make decisions unfettered at the beginning (ie not undermine  him), then they might now seek to have Comolli play a much bigger role in any picks this time around, only accepting his picks if Comolli would give his 100% backing to them i.e make it a 50% decision for each man.

If Comolli played a big part in picks last summer then they might question his picking in terms of cutting edge and again want more justification for expenditure.

They might also decide no further transfers are required just more development of the existing senior squad minus a couple of older players, with a view of removing kenny at the end of next season if we're no further forwards from where we are now.

Ifs, buts and maybes loom large if we don't now see a significant departure from our form over the last 10 games.

Kenny stays. Nothing good comes of constantly tinkering w/ the man at the helm. If half the times we've hit woodwork go in this season, we'd be in fourth (if not second or third) place. That is not his fault. He has made some tactical errors - SO DOES EVERY MANAGER. It is indicative of an inability to see the woods from the trees to suggest he doesn't have the nous to win the league. F'ing Mourinho still can't beat Barca and has tried multiple tactical angles, some of which have been egregiously exposed. The bleating about Kenny not "getting it" is preposterous and is just that: bleating.

Pointing to signings is a weak argument as well. Charlie has performed at the level of his cost. Downing has underperformed, but every single f'ing Villa fan will tell you he was better last season than Cole (who ALSO has woefully underperformed). Carroll was a unique buy, given the absurd net on Torres (that ground has been covered: they were cleared to pay 15mm less than Torres sold for). Suarez, obviously a great buy. Henderson will be an integral member of the team. I wish we'd signed Parker, but we weren't supposed to need a CDM w/ Lucas and Spearo.Guardiola is Las Masia. He's brilliant, but you can't separate the two. He is the corporeal embodiment of the Barcelone ethos.

Mourinho is a f'ing genius and the best manager on the planet, hands down. He could take my Sunday league team and get us promoted to the Championship, at the very least. That doesn't mean I want him coaching Liverpool. 

I don't know how I feel about Rafa coming back. I can't think of anyone else I would want instead of Kenny, but if we're gonna nitpick about manager's mistakes and extrapolate sweeping generalizations therefrom, he was the reason we lost Alonso.

Correction: Not Cole - Ashley Young

I don't think Sunderland would agree with your comment about tinkering with the manager. That is to say, if "tinkering" means replacing the Steve (and this is a QUOTE) "I'm not really into tactics" Bruce, the guy who not only is "not really into tactics" but also does not give the team talks before the game or organise or observe training (so basically, the manager who isn't actually a manager just a guy who gets paid thousands of pounds a week to shout and make gestures on the touchline) with the Northern Irish Mourinho that is Martin O'Neill, leading to dramatically improved results and team performance and a massive unbeaten run that took them way up the table (shades of Hodgson/Dalglish last year) than to be honest I'm all for tinkering. Just as long as the tinkering is well timed. An example of poorly timed tinkering would be Huddersfield sacking Lee Clark when they were fourth in the table and had lost 3 out of the previous 52 games. THAT is bad "tinkering".

I agree w/ everything you say. 

I should've been more clear re: tinkering (given the Woy firing was made almost too late). Big clubs that run through managers are f'ing crazy (read: Chelsea) b/c sooner or later it catches up to you and rots from the inside. It reminds me of SEC football, where everyone is screaming about having to win this year. Or the NY Giants w/ Tom Coughlin. Or Yankees w/ Torre and Girardi. Or my fellow braves fans w/ Fredi Gonzalez (who followed a legend that all the screamers wanted fired every fucking year he managed to not win the world series). There are too many things that go into making a team fire on all cylinders to reflexively fire a manager who appears otherwise competent. I'm never going to agree w/ the people that think Kenny should be anything but retained after the conclusion of this season - even were any other manager available. And even were multiple other "world-class" managers available this summer, I don't think it presents a "hard" decision to JWH and Co. Part of the reason I love the Braves (hometown baseball team) and Pool both and feel honored to cheer for both is b/c they are organizations that keep their sh-t in house and professional. One of the most disgusting things about satan-spawn hicks and gillette was the public nature of the entire unraveling. Hodgson was a f'ing joke and had to go. We are barely a year removed from that date and people are talking about sacking Kenny (I know that's not what you meant when you brought it up, lfc80) based on the fact we're not yet in a CL spot, conveniently eliding from their calculus the following facts (call me Rafa): (a) we hit the woodwork more times in the first half of the season than most teams do in a year, leading to a number of absurd draws; (b) we lost arguably the most important player in our team, Lucas; (c) our best striker (player?) was made to sit out 1/4 of the season; and (d) the one signing that was supposed to be serious class has shit all over himself under the pressure of playing at liverpool (Downing). The vagaries of the profession are f'ing hilarious. Redknapp by all accounts has no tactical acumen, yet there are people lining up to lick his balls as england's savior. Hiddink is alternately shite and a genius. Ranieri - same. The list goes on. Show me a manager other than Mourinho that has demonstrated the ability to win and win and win w/ any group of players in any country. Again - I don't want Mourinho, but that list is f'ing small. I love Rafa, but he didn't look so f'ing great at Inter. Guardiola manages a group of players that have been playing together since they were fucking kids. He grew up in the exact same system. Then he played in the exact same system. They have arguably the best active player in the world. Their entire fucking team plays together on the national side. Their entire system relies on a preternatural understanding between players that rarely happens w/out playing together for years and years and years. If he leaves and goes to another club, Barca redux will just spring from his head. He's not fucking Zeus.

Long live the King. YNWA.

In fairness to the Mourinho thing, I honestly think Martin O'Neill would do well if entrusted with a good side. He did things the right way - he retired from the game, got himself a university degree, along with every coaching qualification in the book, then started out at a Conference (the one below League Two - semi-professional football) team and then worked his way up the ladder through doing very well and consistently overachieving whatever team he was at. He got a very average Leicester team to some very respectable mid-table finishes as well as two League Cups. He got a very average Celtic side to the UEFA Cup Final, where they lost in extra time to a Porto side managed by one Jose Mourinho (total unknown, I know). He then turned Aston Villa into a top-6 side - look where they are now without him. I've mentioned what he's done with Sunderland. I know it sounds a little obsessive - trust me I'm not obsessed - but I a) honestly think he's a quality manager who deserves a go with a really big club and b) am annoyed that he gets classed alongside the dinosaurs like Bruce and Mcleish as just another Premier League manager when he should be ranked far higher than that. I for one would be happy to see him at Liverpool if and when Dalglish steps down/is fired (latter would not bre preferrable)

O'Neill definitely deserves a shot to manage a top side. It's laughable that he doesn't get the credit he deserves.

Yeah. Typical English media I guess. Ignore the football achievements of the quite middle-class looking well spoken guy that wears glasses.

O'Neil spent a fair chunk of cash at Villa yet never improved on O'Leary in table position with Villa.  

Can't remember how long he was there but Lerner couldn't keep funding it, especially the wages.It might well be that he can get a side up to about 6th but no further.And the truth is, unlike what the stoopid English media think, especially about English managers, very few can get a team up to the top 4, and generally need a fair chunk of luck along the way.  Whenever Rafa spent serious money (over £12m) he bought great quality and a fair few excellent cheaper players, and it really showed.  He shouldn't have been anywhere near competing with Utd and Chelski yet there we were.

Kenny has got a squad playing and creating, though boy do we need Lucas for balance, but the transfer strategy leaves us remaining to be convinced and relying on Luis, Bellars and Kuyt (and Maxi) for goals.

Carroll and Downing need time to achieve anything consistent, Henderson  won't be played in the central position while Stevie and Adam is around but can't play anywhere else.
It feels like you're butting up against a ceiling with no where to go from where we are.   

Has Kenny in half a season already taken these players as far as they can go?

I just want to indent this further.

Cool, look how skinny it gets. By the way, Long Live The King. Let's talk about the future when he has a chance to finish the freakin' season

Correction: "If he leaves and goes to another club, Barca redux will [NOT] just spring from his head."

Kenny has done a great job, winning a trophy in his first season and the potential to win another is a great feat in itself. However, the FSG model inevitably comes down to the bottom line. CL qualification equals revenue and upwards of £35-40 million for any club that is competing in it. I would love Kenny to stay on and take this club from strength to strength, but things can change in football very quickly. And should any of the three aforementioned managers be available, FSG would make that decision as and when it warrants. However, if Kenny wins us the FA Cup and gets us into the CL, that decision would be made a a lot harder for John Henry and co.

no decision to make if Kenny achieves 4th.

Do you think RAFA will join Chelsea? Oh no! please don't!!!

If Chelsea want a quality manager. Somebody who has done it all, somebody who would steady the ship. He has managed the likes of Blackburn, Halmstads BK as well as the mighty Malmo! I am talking about none other than Liverpool legend Roy Hodgson, who would be a perfect fit at Chelsea :)

you're not the messiah, you're a very naughty boy!

 That would be a million times worse than when Torres left. However, with the current boardroom situation and the constant intrusion of Abramovich looking over his shoulder. I think that would be enough to put him off. He had that problem with Hicks/Gillette. Don't think he would go through that again! At least I hope not lol!

 Guardiola would be absurdly tempting to FSG. Not saying he'd be interested in us, though I don't think it's preposterous, but should that scenario present itself, I can't see FSG turning it down.

FSG believes in investing in young talent with a long term view, both across players and managers. This is their stated strategy across all teams and sports. Guardiola would fit nicely with that - at least in terms of age. The only thing is that Guardiola does not look like he will be appreciating in value/success. Right now he is working with an otherworldly team of players, the like of which will most likely never be assembled again in the next 2 or 3 decades. For him, anything other than Barca will be trading down.

Any of the three would be perfect Lets see how the season unfolds. I would personally love Kenny to stay and win a league title for Liverpool. However the romantic notion does not always necessarily tie in with reality.

Another season. The only man I want replacing Kenny is Rafa, and whatever job he's at I know he'll vacate it in a hurry to answer Liverpool's call. I don't want Guardiola or Mourinho... gotta be Rafa! 

Yes, I'm s sentimental fool. But there's sound reasoning somewhere in there, I swear.

Rafa would always be welcome back at Liverpool, especially with FSG's money now. Kenny is and will ALWAYS be a legend for Liverpool. However, with the prospect of Redknapp leaving for the hot seat at England and the prospect of Villas Boas or Wenger potentially getting sacked. Not to mention the inevitable retirement of Liverpool's favourite son Sir Alex. I just don't think that FSG will allow one of the three mentioned to join a Premiership rival if advised by Comolli. Especially if they are building for the future!

Bet 'arry takes the job just for the summer to see how things turn out.  Can't believe he'll give up CL footy with Spurs.

Yeah, that's a really good point... I think for now, Kenny deserves to stay on until next January, at least. After that... well, football is really unpredictable, so who knows what'll happen.  I really wanted Pellegrini to come in when Kenny was appointed instead... now who rates Pellegrini anymore?

I don't think Mourinho would join a league rival of a former club, he hasn't done that yet... not to mention his wage demands. But now he has experienced the three top leagues after his stint with Real Madrid. Unless he goes into national team management or back to Porto, he'll more likely than not have to break that rule. It all depends on FSG's frame of mind and how much cash they're willing to splash.

I don't feel FSG mind splashing the cash. They are new to football club ownership, the amount of money spent in baseball is extortionate in comparison, with players being bought for upto $75- $100 million. However, should Liverpool sign quality this summer with the likes of Hazard, Cavani, Lavezzi, Hamsek, Gotze and the plethora of quality players that could be available this summer, I feel they have a good chance to push on and put in a good shot for next seasons title. However, I feel if Liverpool do not qualify for the CL in the next two seasons, Kenny's contract will not be renewed and he will be moved upstairs. And one of the three aforementioned managers would take his position. At the end of the day John Henry and FSG are business men and the CL brings in upto £35-40 million a season. They will not sacrifice profit for a romantic notion built on former glories.

If things aren't looking very promising for CL footy by next Xmas, Kenny will be moved on for sure.

Rafa Benitez is available now.  Pep will leave Barca for a house in the canary islands, and I don't think anyone honestly wants Mourinho's ego around.  There is hardly a better man for the job than King Kenny.  If you think there is a better man than The King, I'd like to know who, other than the 3 you mentioned.  Rafa was a great coach, and I really think he would still be around if the Owners had not been insane, but I think bringing him back NOW would not be the best idea.

What about Frank Riijkard? May be not better than Kenny but a decent one and at least less biased when it comes to buy foreign players over British ones.Other than that he fancies attacking football.

Gus Hiddink is another one whose name springs to mind, if available he would not reject the offer and he seems to have what it takes to be a good man manager and a good tactician as well.

how about some good ol' proven managers from the bundesliga like jurgen klinsman or jupp heynckes?  jupp got the eufa champ trophy for real madrid and bayern have been very strong under his tutelage.

 Thats my point, the current three that I have mentioned are the current best managers in world football. As for Mourinho love him or hate him, the man gets results. He has won a league title in every league for whatever team he has managed ( he should win it for Real Madrid this season), as well as two CL titles. You can't argue with those results. He also gets results and most importantly 100% from his players. You may not like the man but you have to respect what he has done.

My biggest concern about Mourinho is the Mourinho curse and his disrespect for club history. Lucky for him, Chelsea and Inter have no fucking history. But he's screwing Real Madrid over with his antics. The media is certainly making the most of it, but it's his own fault for poking a coach's eye and talking shit on Guardiola in press conferences. Sorry, but Liverpool can't afford to have Mourinho poking Pat Rice's eyes out at Anfield; we've had enough controversy this year. 

And the Mourinho curse. Chelsea have somewhat sustained themselves because they keep throwing money at it, but look at Inter, who haven't spent practically anything since 2010. They are on the verge of collapse every other game. They'll have to spend millions and millions again and again to keep that cherry rollin. Not acceptable according to FSG's plan for the long haul. 

Inter have no history?! Inter "1964 and 1965 European Cup winners plus 18 times Italian champions dating back to their first title in 1910 and 7 times Italian cup winners first time in 1939" Milan have no fucking history??? I know the Serie A is not as well covered as the Prem and La Liga, but have some respect, man. Inter are 3rd only to Juventus (2 times European cup and 27 times Serie A) and AC Milan (7 times European cup and 18 times Serie A) as the most successful and historical club in Italy. CHELSEA on the other hand have no fucking history.

I'll make sure to read every detail on the wikipedia page on every club and player I ever mention for now on. A quick search for Chelsea F.C. shows they have a good 20 trophies themselves. Er'body get uppity!

Brush aside all the pitiful details and facts and you'll see that my point is simply that those clubs are not like Liverpool. Different fan bases, different expectations. 

the best part of celebrating through monday is the way my brain feels right now... wait thats not right... the lights are too bright on this site... turn it down...

I'm going to say it...I dont care anymore...this is Neb (me) being a realist...I'm getting too old for these kinds of celebrations...someone please just wake me up when macgyveor is back on tv.

Why can't I just wallow in the glory for a few days before the next game? It appears being a loyal red now means you are asked to live a life that a medieval monk would aspire too. For those too young to know what a medieval monk's life was like google it...just like I'm going to google inflammatory sky sports uk comments.

Unless it turns out that beer for Carroll has always been roughly his
equivalent of Popeye’s spinach, and a quieter, healthier lifestyle since
arriving at Liverpool has been at the root of his often quieter and
less assertive performances."

Speaking to some knowledgeable Newcastle fans the other night and they argued the same thing...

I know I worl a helll ofa lot bettr when am jrunk!!! 

...hic...

we have a running joke btwn us lfc fans here in the states....i suggested carroll works renaissance fests in the summer and my other mate/redtotheend fan suggests that carroll listened to krokus with a 12 pack o' beer on the hood of his trans am in school. fa cup troph is in our grasps and if that happens then henray fenway won' t give (too much of) a shit about 4th place finish....the result of carling can only push the lfc club forward and it's this season or bust for some of our players (reina/kuyt/gerrard/maxi/etc).........