Liverpool’s Deep Defensive Line

By: Noel | November 1st, 2011
   
pub drinking painting

West Bromwich Albion marked the first time that Jamie Carragher hasn’t started at centre half this season, and with it came the first chance in ages to see Martin Skrtel and Daniel Agger paired at the back. The long-delayed partnership, one many assumed Rafa Benitez intended to use as the replacement for Hyypia and Carragher before a series of injuries made it nearly impossible to imagine, put in an almost flawless performance. Yet with constant talk throughout the first quarter of the season about an aging Carragher dragging the squad’s defensive line dangerously deep, one has to ask if this change in personnel in fact led to the team playing with a higher line.

liverpool west brom position

Many will recall Agger in particular bombing forward, and combined with 58% possession one would likely assume the defenders would be positioned fairly high up the pitch. If only because Liverpool had the ball well over half the time and Agger in particular seemed to spend more than half of that time closer to the Baggies’ box than his own, one would expect one or both of the players to finish the match with a high average position.

However, the average position map for the game (above) instead shows a fairly deep line. Agger’s driving runs might well have been memorable, and the pair’s mobility may have helped in ways that simply looking at average positions wouldn’t illustrate, but when comparing the average depth of the centre back pair on Saturday against West Brom to earlier games where one of Agger or Skrtel was matched with Carragher shows that at the very least having Carragher out of the lineup didn’t result in the defence holding a noticeably higher line.

liverpool united position

The week before against Norwich, in fact (left), when Liverpool held 55% of the possession, Carragher paired with Skrtel—and in the closing minutes with Agger as part of a three man defensive line—in nearly identical positions as the Skrtel and Agger duo a week later. Instead, a far more glaring difference is found by looking just ahead of the centre back duo, where against West Brom Lucas’ average position reflects his contribution: screening the defence and linking play with the more attack minded midfielders and strikers.

In the match against Norwich, however, there’s no bigger gap between Liverpool players anywhere on the pitch than between Skrtel and Carragher at the back and Gerrard and Adam in midfield, with the latter duo doubled up in the centre circle.

The result of that yawning chasm—namely Grant Holt’s equaliser on the counter when Adam was caught in possession and Norwich saw thirty yards of open space to run into—seems even more inevitable when faced with visual evidence of the team’s set up. And given the similarly deep defensive line held without Carragher a week later, it’s probably less fair to blame that chasm on him dragging the line back than it is to blame it on the midfield becoming entirely unstuck and abandoning their defensive duties.

By comparison, against Manchester United (above left) Liverpool did hold a fairly high line, all while having 56% of the possession and starting Skrtel alongside Carragher at the back. Likely a conscious tactical choice by Kenny Dalglish and Steve Clarke, it still would result in a defensively foolish gap between midfield and defence were one to remove Lucas from the equation in favour of the midfield seen a week later. But regardless of that, it suggests that Carragher is in fact capable of playing a higher line than he often does, and that with the club playing a deeper line in every other match this season—including the one where Carragher didn’t start—the depth of that line may in fact have very little to do with the players and everything to do with the coaches.

liverpool wolves position

Still, while there appears to be evidence that Liverpool’s deep defensive line is largely a tactic favoured regardless of the players involved, that doesn’t mean there haven’t been obvious changes to how the team sets up in recent weeks. Heading back to the first two months of the season in fact finds average position maps that are consistently and radically different at the back then those from the past month, with Wolves (top right) and Bolton (bottom right) representative examples.

Wolves were one of the few times this season Liverpool has lost the possession battle, as they managed to hold the ball only 48% of the time. Bolton, on the other hand, saw 59% possession, a number much closer to those of the more recent games looked at previously. Yet on both occasions early in the season, the average position taken up by the defensive pair—Carragher and Skrtel in one and Carragher with Agger in the other—is nearly identical. And in both cases those positions are very different from what has been seen in recent weeks.

The presence of Lucas linking attack with defence and shielding against the break remains constant, but in both cases Carragher finds himself significantly deeper than his partner. At the time it might have been easy to write off as being down to his less adventurous nature, yet the shape taken by the backline in recent weeks gives lie to this—as does the fact that against Wolves and Bolton, both the conservative Skrtel and the attacking Agger take up similar average positions relative to Carragher.

As a result, it does very much look as though in the early going Jamie Carragher was indeed dragging the defensive line deeper—or sloppily allowing a gap to regularly open between him and his defensive partner. However, based on recent evidence there’s reason to hope that even when he’s in the lineup, this doesn’t have to be the case—and also that whatever Dalglish and Clarke have said to him about pushing up to match his partner seems to have worked. On the other hand, there also seems to be evidence that regardless of whether Carragher starts or not, a fairly deep line is the preference with this squad.

Whether it’s the correct approach, and whether Jamie Carragher is still mobile enough to perform as a top centre half week in and week out regardless of how high the line is, is, of course, an entirely different question.


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  • Geoff Twentyman

    Excellent article Noel! or Its a top, top, top article!

  • Right, then I'd best retire now before the inevitable downfall.

  • Geoff Twentyman

    In all seriousness, I love reading about this sort of stuff. It begs the questions why we're setting up with a deep defensive line, it may provide insight into why we've bought certain players and how t shapes how we play.

    Great stuff.

  • For me, Jamie Carragher was done last year.  He looks like he has lost confidence in his ability to get around the pitch.  Against Birmingham last season, at home, he fell over after almost no contact from Cameron Jerome and was wrongly awarded a foul.  It has happened already a few times this season.  It happened for Bolton's goal and Samir Nasri absolutely juked him out of his socks at the Emirates.  He legs seemed to give out when he tried to cover Kenwyne Jones after Coates gave the ball away in the Carling Cup and he couldn't get off his feet for the cross Norwich scored on.  He just looks panicked when he has to play defense in space.
      

  • Geoff Twentyman

    Carra is a Kop Legend, but Father Time catches up with everyone. It's natural to want to carry on playing at the highest level, but this is a fast paced and physically demanding league so he should follow Sami's lead and head off to the Budesliga if he wants to prolong hi career any further.

  • I think Carragher should quietly do a Pelligrino and just show up one day as a member of the coaching staff.

  • I'm still not convinced we need a coach whose go-to advice is to "empty it" any time you get the ball.

  • I agree.  But it seems like the only way to get him off the pitch at the moment

  • Latortillablanca

    carra's old, but if the skrtel-agger pairing ever had an opportunity to prove to the coaches that they should be the first choice CBs, now's that time.  If they don't seize it, that's not on the ol' fart...

  • dlange99

    Carragher is one of the kop kings, but like we saw in the last match we are equally as good without him. I mean I would hate to seem him not playing but maybe its time to try and build this agger skrtel partnership, with carragher coming in as an impact player.

  • Ryan

    Oh, we're playing a deep defensive line? In that case:

    ------------Reina--------Jnson-Kelly-Carra-Coates-Agger
    ---------Skrtel-Aurelio--------
    Kuyt----------Lucas-------Downing

  • Ryan

    damnit why can't our defense stay central...

  • Redarmy

    what about the avg position of Spearing in the Stoke game? comparable to Lucas or more like Adam?

  • Since it was a cup match, unfortunately there's no positional information on it, which is a shame since if there had been it would have been useful.

  • Latortillablanca

    educated guess?  mine eyes doth tell me itd mirror lucas'...

  • Lucas got forward more with Spearing in, so I'd guess both would be ahead of where Lucas is when paired with Adam but that it wouldn't be the same sort of gulf as when Adam paired Gerrard.

  • PDubz18

    One thing we need is another Lucas. Looking at that average position of the Norwich game really scares me; there is just way too much space in between our lines to win a game. In that game, the midfield was less of a double pivot and more of just a midfield partnership. Granted, Adam and Gerrard did link up more than Lucas and Adam, but we really need to be able to have a midfielder to step in when Lucas is suspended. Yann M'vila anybody?

  • kopite143

    ever heard of jay spearing?

  • Joel

    One thing I noticed while rewatching some bits and pieces of matches from this season is that we're much more active/aggressive at the back without Carra in the lineup. What I mean is that we're not necessarily playing with a significantly higher initial defensive line, but without Carra, the line is holding it's position longer rather than dropping back to the 18 as soon as the opposition has possession. In essence, Skrtel/Agger/Coates are looking to keep the space between the opponent's forward and midfield compressed for slightly longer and look to shut down balls into forward in the middle of the pitch. 

    In watching Carra, it seems as if he's lost confidence in his ability to defend upfield as he constantly cedes position to the opposing forward, preferring to drop deeper and delay challenges at all costs. Its now even carried over to his play in the box, most notably for Stoke's opener last week. That's the bottom line for me- when a defender doesn't seem to be able to trust himself to get the job done properly, it's time to head out to pasture.

  • Wilbur

    I think Joel is correct in this idea, and I believe that it is Carra's lack of pace that is robbing him of his confidence.  He can't get off the mark as swiftly as when he was younger, so he tries to keep the play in front of him.

    Didn't Glenn Hysen suffer the same sort of drop-off in his second year with us, as First Division forwards realized how slow he was and began to take advantage of him?

  • Sandro

    Wondering what everybody thinks of Skrtel's future at the club? I've been far more impressed with him this season than in the past. He's approaching 26/27 so theoretically coming into his peak soon and hopefully developing into a Vidic like character. Do people think he's a prospect to anchor our defence in the future or should we find somebody better?

  • Geoff Twentyman

    He's good enough to be in the squad and get a fair few games each season. I personally think that in January we need to bring in a 'ready now' top drawer CB who can play with ball at his feet as well as defend. That might cost us a few bob, but its needed to get that player bedded in for next year. Coates/Wilson/Kelly can then do their developing in their own time under no pressure with a Agger/Skrtel/1 Other as the rotated first choice 3.

  • PDubz18

    He's solid. And really, do you need anything more than a solid CB for the mid-career backup player? There have been some games where he did not play as well, but I think he has some room to improve. He has some speed on him, which is much more that I can say for a lot of world class CB's.

  • Latortillablanca

    skrtel's certainly a good player to have around, but the centerpiece of a d?  dont think so.  too limited.  and way too unstable from set pieces considering he's a bludgeon.  but he's got loads of experience now and seems bedded into the squad, club and city. useful, and unless someone blows ur socks off with an offer, why get rid of him, y'know?  

  • Redarmy

    Considering that Carra's old, Coates is young and Agger's injury-prone, he's centerpiece material by default.

  • Latortillablanca

    well then we're fucked. if our defensive plan for the short-medium term is just to play skrtel-agger with coates as the back up (kelly doesnt count, cuz so far at least boy's a rb...), that's not good enough to be securing champs league year in year out.

  • Sandro

    yeh I definitely think he is a decent squadplayer.. and he's never complained when he's been left out of the team. Despite that I can't see him becoming a regular fixture of the starting 11. I see Carragher taking a role similar to that of Hypia in his last couple years. So either Coates needs to step up ASAP or we need to find another centre back.

  • Latortillablanca

    good stuff.  is this how the shankly, paisley and king defenses were set out back in the day?  im wondering if kenny and clarke are choosing to go this route to fit the players they have in carra an skrtel, or if its another carry over from the 'liverpool way'...?

  • Geoff Twentyman

    Hansen and Lawrenson played a high defensive line because they both had pace and were both comfortable on the ball.

    I don't remember an earlier defensive partnership.

  • Tom Foolery

    Very interesting read, as was the winger debate. But, as per usual, I'm still left hung on the fence. Does Carra still have it in him to play a high line, we saw Terry's shortcomings against the Arse (not really a fair comparison, sorry for even mentioning his name on this innocent site). Anyway, I guess my natural response is either jabbering on about the pros and cons of either setup or just taking El Dudarino's method of argumentation...I'll let him speak for myself:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

  • For good or ill, I already passed judgement on Carragher earlier in the season, so this was less about figuring out the way forward than it was looking at where the club stands now—and that includes some interesting/unexpected tidbits, like that Carragher has stepped up to play closer to his partner in recent weeks and that the club's highest defensive line of the season was against United with him in the starting eleven while one of the deepest was without him.

  • Steven - Melbourne

    The obvious answer to this whole write up is, that when you play a style week in week out, it is too difficult to change over night. The simple answer also to any deep defensive line, is that the defence is not quick and fears of the through ball! (Therefore a deep defensive line)
    Also our defenders do not have an imposing figure out back to out muscle attackers on the opposing team!
    What Liverpool need to do is get speed back there with muscle!
    Shawcross, Cahil are two players that come to mind. Nothing against our boys, but to stop fast attackers, we need a new personal back there! I can't wait for Coates to get used to the pace of the EPL because i think he will be able to get partnered with a Cahil easily! Agger also is an immediate fix to this while Carragher gets faded out slowly!

  • Latortillablanca

    we have physical players in skrtel, carra and coates... the speed thing isn't necessary if you're playing a deep line, which as noel just detailed, our tactical preference is for our cbs to stay deep.  off point, but this underlines how baffling a decision it was for arsenal to sign mertesacker - their line plays wayyy high and needs the quick CBs to play the offside trap and not get burned, so then they go out and sign a glacier...  mertesacker wuda prolly excelled alongside agger in this system come to think of it...

  • Ashfag

    Agger can run forward and break into the opponent's half without much difficult, only thing he should br careful not to pick up injuries.

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