Kenny on Suarez, Youngsters on Loan, and Other Thursday Notes

I am from Uruguay.  I am not happy the spotlight is on Luis for something like this.
Those who hate him already for the handball in 2010 WC, his teeth, his antics in general.....they already have made up their minds.    Those who see a racist everywhere or in anything will do so as well.

I know this has been said already...but in Uruguay the word "negro" means black and there is no racist overtones meant by it.  Is that maybe what LUis said?   Uruguay is not a country of saints but racists and hateful of other cultures we are not.  This country is more Left and more accepting of others than most.
The most famous Uruguayan player was called "The Negro Jeffe"  Not a term of ridicule or racism but a term of respect.  Alvaro Periera and Abel Hernandez are all very popular and well liked and respected players on this team.

1st to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide in 1965.  Gay Marriage in SA.  Whatever your feelings on those 2 things...that is just an example of it's open and leanings for acceptance for everyone.  I think Evra is trying to capitalize on the disgust and hatred aimed towards Suarez after the handball situation vs Ghana; to stick it up to Luis and Uruguay and make us look like the biggest black-haters on the planet. 
1) Any Uruguayan who loves soccer is proud of the country’s history and legacy left behind by the likes of Andrade and Varela.2) El Candombe is part of our culture and it celebrates the Black culture.3) Every February, with Carnival, we are again celebrating the Black culture.

WE are not saints.....and I am sure there are some who are not as open as we all think we are...but the rep of Uruguay and soccer players has taken a big fall since 1986 WC to begin with and now this.

Now Sir Alex Ferguson who was Scotland’s coach in the 1986 World Cup match between Uruguay and Scotland, a match now infamous for its aftermath more than anything else — after that match Scotland’s FA chief executive, Ernie Walker referred to Uruguay as the “Scum of the Earth” — is backing Evra’s claim as being authentic. Ferguson’s involvement (even if its to defend one of his own players) given his history with Uruguayans is complicated to say the least, Ferguson who threw a pair of football cleats at Diego Forlan in a fit of rage and refused to speak to the BBC for several years can never be confused for the great communicator. 

With all honesty, thank you for sharing your thoughts, and congrats on your great national team... I hope more of them become Reds...

Thank You Mike.  I have been a fan of Liverpool since I was old enough to know what the sport was.  I moved from Uruguay during the mid 70's.....to the US due to the economic and the dictatorship that ruled over there from 1973 through the or most of the 80's.

It seemed like the way the country went....so went the soccer....which up until 1974 WC....they had better record than Argentina by a long mile and way better Copa America record than Brazil.  The worm turned and it has been 40 years since they have been this good on a consistent basis and not know for just being overly hard men on the pitch.

I hope Liverpool continues a good relationship with Uruguay and it looks like Nacional....and they get good players who work hard and are not looking to jump around on a whim.

Interesting reading, and I don't think you'll have any fans here not prepared to listen to your account of your nation's over-riding attitudes.  

Most of us, no all of us, are thrilled to have Luis and Sebastian at the club, and lets face it, England's star player  Rooney is certainly no saint as he regularly reminds us.I think the article published here says it all.  We wait to see what the outcome is, but at the end of the day this does noone any good being carried out in  public.  Evra, Ferguson, the FA should have dealt with this in confidence to find out the facts and the fact that they went public with it shows a propensity to cause trouble.  Mud sticks.

Lets hope this business doesn't linger and we get a kick ass performance tomorrow, when Adam is going to have to perhaps do Lucas' job.

Thank You for letting me vent and listening.  I surely do not want excuses for Luis.   He is a little crazy.....which you love when he does what he does and it is what makes him this good.

Trouble is you have some baggage that can come with it.    I hope he is able to handle the workload and I was glad Kenny took him off earlier....beacuse he thinks he can go all the time.  With the WC Qualifiers being 2 games on 7th and 11th of Oct and then this game that just passed 4 games later.... I was upset Oscar (Uruguay Coach) did not take him off at least the Bolivia game when up 4-1 with 12 minutes to go.  These guys have a limit and we are seeing that with Forlan out a month after the Oct 11th game vs Paraguay.

Same could happen to Suarez here with WC Qualifiers going on for another 2 years.

One reason why I like Hendo more than Carroll is that he seems more hard-working than Carroll even though Carroll might have more potential to be a better player. Sorry sounds really off topic but was just on liverpoolfc.tv and saw the new article about him staying later to train so he can score more goals. I hope he gets more playing time so he can improve

I think it should be common knowledge that Suarez has a dark side to him. Just ask Ajax fans. No matter how much they love the player, they will not deny him being one of the dirtiest players around. I am sure evra is not making this whole thing up, why would he risk his reputation and lie about being racially abused. No, I think Suarez did say something, maybe to wind evra up, and maybe he didn't even mean it to be racist. But there is no place for that in 2011, and I would personally never want someone like that on my team no matter how good he is.

I know Luis has a dark side that clouds his way of doing things in an effort to win.

Evra though....was the man who spearheaded the infamous mutiny last year during the World Cup when the entire French team refused to practice for then French manager Raymond Domenech. France who was unable to defeat Uruguay in the World Cup lost subsequent matches to Mexico and South Africa after Domenech dismissed Nicolas Anelka from the squad.  
What good rep does this guy have?   He accused a Chelsea groundskeeper of racism and it was unfounded and he was suspended for it in 2008...... so again....WHY would he NOT make it up?   Evra was subsequently banned for four games and fined £15,000 for his part in the post-match altercation with the groundsman.

Yet you are sure he is either not making it up......or completely misunderstood the word negro with the N word.  Which again...Negro in Uruguay does not have the same racial overtones as it does in the US or England.

The 'no-smoke-without-fire' crowd have already convicted Suarez. If he is innocent it will be impossible to prove and so his reputation is besmirched. Similarly, although the lack of evidence against him makes proving guilt massively unlikely, the suggestion of his alleged offences is enough to damage him in perpetuity. Were he truly a racist, that fate would be the least he'd deserve. Should he be innocent, as we all wish, he is still tainted by the accusation. Luis Suarez cannot win here. 

that's why evra and ferguson went public with it.

But at the end of the day, regardless of whether Suarez did do it or not, he comes off worse than Evra. Because accusing someone and it not being proved is more common than finding proof that he's innocent in these circumstances. It seems like the same thing as Suarez is still let off but its not because now people are going to bring that up every single time Suarez does something. This might be sensitive but to be honest I just don't want to think about this issue anymore because I don't think there will be proof for either side and Suarez's name has already been rubbed through the dirt.

I think that's what Fergie wants otherwise he wouldn't have gone public.  How long till Fergie's manager mates start repeating the 'diving all over the place' charges.
Also, why did Evra as captain not shake Gerrard's hand before the game?

Sooo....Paul Lambert's crew on Saturday. Hang on to your groin-dongs! Starting without Lucas, even with the return of The Captain, leaves me with an unfortunate twinge of anxiety folks. With all deference to Sue/Paul, I think the guy's become invaluable. I hope to see Spearo in on Saturday. I also want a hat-trick for big Andy and wee Luis. And a yacht....I want a yacht.

lol.
caaaalm down dear, caaalm down.
Great to see the return of Gerrard's groin-dong to our musings.  Noel and Ed have been neglecting it for a while now, the slackers.  

Never take a groin-dong for granted is what I say.  Nor a yacht for that matter.

Spearing is a good call for Lucas.  I'll throw a fit if we're relying on adam there.  Surely, as you say, Carroll is due a start (and Hendo), but after Rangers I wonder if he'll come off the bench.  

He's got a head test Carroll until things start to click.  Hope he can hold it together.

Also, you would have thought Suarez would be rested finally.  Wonder if Coates might get a game.   Could be a better fit than at Stoke in the CC next week.

I find the references to Suarez's past behaviour as evidence that he may be guilty just incredulous.

On that basis, Roy Carroll must be a racist. After all, he cheated Spurs out of a goal back in 2005 with that 'save'...nailed on evidence of general evil that.

Mind-numbing lack of anything worth covering right now, so preview will run a little earlier than usual tomorrow morning in lieu of videos about cats in Liverpool jerseys batting around balls of yarn. Actually, I wish.

Only update needed--Steven Gerrard's groin is reported to be safe and sound in bed at the present moment.

And what a wonderful groin it is. Sleep well, Number 8's groin...

i dont want steve's groin to make headlines for next couple of the seasons....

In 20 years of watching the Premiership I have seen many diving incidents. The three that come immediately to mind are: 1) Rooney's dive at OT in Oct. 2004 that gave United a penalty and ended Arsenals 49 match unbeaten record; 2)Berbatov's dive in an FA cup match in Jan 2011 at OT against Liverpool, and; 3) any game Cristiano Ronaldo played during his first five years at United. It is true, however, that the aforementioned players were advised to restrict their diving to the penalty area and to not do it all over the place. That would be cheating. Cristiano just  ignored the advice.

The way Luis lights up players with his skills often evokes very aggressive tackles in response. He has to be very careful with sliding tackles, especially from the side or behind. He does leave his feet/go down a bit easy, but it is often to ride out a tackle and avoid injury. Only takes one bad tackle with his studs in the ground to result in a broken ankle or shin. I also would like to see him not ask the ref for foul calls. No need for it, really. Let the ref do his job.

perfect call.

It hasn't been mentioned so.
Stevie's groin.
It's not an article without it. It had to be said.

Always good to see someone who dislikes Eccleston, and I agree with the general populace on Suarez's diving. Don't like it, obviously, but he clearly makes it up in other areas.

Unfollowed Eccleston on twitter a long, long time ago. Lord knows it didn't hurt his massive ego.

For my own interest I had a look on soccerway for some stats on our young loanees. I'm not professing to know anything about them, just letting you all know what they've been doing. If anyone has watched them play, I'd be keen to know more...

Eccleston will be joining Stephen Darby (23) who has been ever present at Rochdale notching up 12 starts for them.  Eccleston (20) had 8 starts and 12/13 sub appearances for Charlton last term in League 1, so presumably will be looking to become a starter for 'Dale to prove his ability.

Gulacsi (21) has had 3 starts in the Championship with Hull after 12 starts last season in League 1. Hopefully he'll have a number of starts in double figures by the end of the season which will be great experience for the youngster. If that happens, on paper it will look like a good learning curve from L1 last year onto the Championship and hopefully a starting berth on loan the year after next where we can really get a good look at his potential.

Shelvey (19) has started 3 times for Blackpool and scored a well publicised free kick and it will be good experience for the youngster having played most of his Charltyon minutes in League 1 - again, by the end of the seaons, if he's become a mainstay in the team, on paper it will look like good progression.

Martin Hansen (21) is also out on loan and like Gulacsi has played a handful of games behind a more experienced 'keeper. 4 starts for Bradford City in League 2 will be valuable experience.

Dani Pacheco (20) has been on the bench 6 times and has seen the pitch 4 times comprising 101 minutes so far in the Spanish top flight. Thats averaging 25 minutes a game which is not too Xabi and will hopefully give our management ample opportunity to view his qualities against strong opposition. I must admit, I'd hoped he might see this sort of game time for LFC in order for us to gauge his potential, but it might be that he's just more suited to this league.

David Amoo (20) has extended his stay at Bury where he's notched up 3 starts and 1 sub appearance. After a handful of sub appearances in the Championshiop last year, it would be good for him to get some playing time in League 1 to increase his confidence.

Nice one GT.  
It is good to hear about this stuff.  Thought Shelvey might start a few more.  They really pack those games in in the lower leagues.

Guess he hasn't been there that long and needs to settle with the guys in training first.

I think he's only been there long enough to start those 3.

I think its interesting and maybe you can see how far down the development track these guys are based on where they are playing ie Pacheco is playing top level football albeit not as a starter.
Gulacsi has spent time in League 1 and now the Championship; for me thats a rising curve.
Likewise, tha last time Shelvey was playing regularly it was in League 1, now he looks to be a starter for Blackpool in the Championship; again a rising curve.

Has Darby found his level in League 1? It will be interesting to see. I know players mature at different ages but he seems well settled in the first team so I suspect his move may become a permemant one. Maybe Eccleston has been sent there for a similar reason?

Hansen is getting a few games in L2 - I think its always difficult for a young keerp by the naturre of the criticism you get but a few starts this season and who knows what can happen.

It looks touch and go with Amoo - he got plenty of minutes in the Championship last time out on loan, but never held a starting berth, Now he's dropped a Division. Again, this could mean he gets plenty of starts and can kick on becuase of the experience, but for me, it's not looking all that promising.

The good thing I have to say about Suarez going to ground easy is that he avoids getting injured a lot.  For me that's pretty good and although I don't approve of all his overreactions, I'm happy that we have a healthy forward week in week out. 

Even if the FA finds no substance at all to the accusations against Suarez, the media will convict him anyway.  Given that, I really hope Evra gets some sort of backlash (likely it'll have to come from LFC lawyers - perhaps with backup from Steve Finnan and the French national team).  

Libel's no less criminal than any other form of lying and cheating.  In business he'd be sued for all he's worth.  If he were a politician he'd be removed from office immediately.  Just because he's a professional footballer that comes under the protection of Man Utd, I hope it doesn't mean he can just do what he wants without consequence - although sadly history and some popular chant suggests that it does.  

Actually Evra didn't accuse Finnan, a deaf fan claimed he lip-read the insult. Evra declined to complain.

Yup, I've read about that.  And also that in the bust up with Chelsea it was someone else who made the accusation.  To me, whether Evra was the one to make the initial complaint or whether he just passively agreed with it kind of says the same thing.  

From standpoint of principles, he's no less culpable just because it was a sin of omission - though legally he was a lot safer just going along with the charge rather than leading it.  

To be fair, let's put the whole issue of Evra's history aside and just judge the matter at hand.  There's a player accusing another player of a very serious action.  If the evidence corroborates the charge, Suarez should be banned for a long time and ultimately Liverpool need to let him go.  And if there's absolutely no basis found for the accusations, it's called slander and needs to be punished accordingly.  It has to be one way or the other.  This isn't a case where evidence is lacking and therefore inconclusive - there were hordes of cameras, microphones, 22 players on the pitch, a ref, multiple linesmen, other staff pitchside, an entire stadium of fans, and 500 million viewers watching every player every second from multiple angles.  Really, if Suarez could do something 10 times in a match and avoid all detection, he'd be the world's greatest genius...   

That last part has seemed key from the beginning. I get why everybody wants to talk about how you can't prove something like this didn't happen and that it'd be a horrible precedent to punish a player for claiming he was the target of racial abuse, but but but... This was never a case of Evra saying, "While we were tangled in the corner Suarez said something to me." It was, "Suarez said something to me over ten times and the referee heard it."

Count me in as one of those worried about the precedent it would set--I suspect that a lot of abuse goes unreported because black players don't have faith that anything will happen or are worried about the backlash--but the longer this story goes on without any evidence to back up Evra's claims, the more baffled I get. There's really no other response left at this point than to go, "WTF?" (Seriously, you know good and well Sky Sports went over the footage from the game with a fine-tooth comb, and they couldn't find ANYTHING.)

On the other hand--and this is not so much related to Suarez and Evra as it is an example of the FA's incredible incompetence--there's a story (recently repeated in the Guardian) about how Joleon Lescott reported being racially abused by another player while he was at Everton, and had Tim Howard as a witness to back him up--but because Lescott reported that he was called a "f--ing negro" and Howard reported that he'd overheard "f--ing n--r", the FA put it down as "unproven". (The really appalling part is that England is STILL ahead of other countries when it comes to racism in football.)

Sky came out 24 hours later and said they'd been over all their footage and couldn't come up with anything. As for the FA, they're barely competent at the best of times regardless of what they're dealing with, so it would probably be too much to expect them to be especially on the ball when it comes to racism. Suppose at least they're better than Spain, where it can be caught by the cameras and nothing happens—though of course in Spain a manager can indulge in a spot of physical assault in full sight of the cameras and nothing happens, so it's still easy enough to blame it on gross incompetence instead of any kind of malice.

The FA's just put Stuart Pearce in charge of the GB Olympic football team, being competent is clearly not a priority. (If someone could actually explain to me what their priorities actually ARE, I'd love to know.)

As for Spain--pfft. I'm actually quite comfortable putting it down to gross incompetence AND malice. No reason they can't be multi-tasking.