In Response to the FA Ruling on Luis Suarez

Hi, Im Gabriel from Uruguay, where Suarez was born.
This is stupid!! Suarez Grandfather is a black...

After reading the post and everyone's comments there is only one thing I would like to add.

FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK and FUCK 

It is disappointing to see Suarez out for 8 but we gotta accept it. What i cant understand is all the Munich comments aimed at Man utd fans. I'm sure we'd all be up in arms if Heysel of Hillsborough was brought up in our faces. Are we that crude?? :\

Well, the good news for Suarez is he won't be doing jailtime...

Not the same for John Terry.

The Crown Prosecution Service was considering three possible charges against John Terry. He was actually charged with the least serious of those 3 possible charges and faces a maximim penalty of a $2,500 pound fine. There is NO possible jail time associated with the charge.

The second more serious of the possible charges did carry some possible jail time, but, CPS rightly decided that there would have been NO chance of a successful prosecution of that more serious charge. There was some element of an expectation of reasonable or impending physical harm associated with the incident. Not reasonable considering it was in front of 25,000 people.

The worst part, to me, is that this decision in fact perpetuates racism rather than fights it. In my opinion, one of the worst features of our "post-racial society" of the 21st century is the 'boy who cried wolf mentality'. The hyper sensitivity to racism stands in the way of moving past it. As someone on here mentioned, Suarez's response to Evra reflected the correct attitude, 'Porque Negro', yes, you're black, I'm South America, and Charlie Adam is a chubby Scot, what difference does it make? It boils my blood that you can't say "black people" too loudly in public without most [white] onlookers getting offended.

Decisions such as these by the FA are setting us back as a society.

Suarez got punished because he show no remorse, sometimes an apology can do wonders!
In a case of racism it doens't matter if the offender (Suarez) thinks he didn't mean do be a racist, or if it is normal to call someone certain words where he comes from. It's about the victim, if he feels racially abused, he should have every right to go forward with it.

The LFC statement says: 'We find it extraordinary that Luis can be found guilty on the word of Patrice Evra alone...'

You know what is the problem with this statement? It implies Evra made this up to get Suarez banned. It also implies between the lines 'how can you trust the word of that black guy?' - That in itself is racism.

(and yes, I am black)

"...it doesn't matter if he didn't mean to be racist?" - so if it's not racist intent that the FA is trying to stamp out, then what is it? Evra's underdeveloped self-worth?  

and yes, Evra is a black guy, but the LFC statement you quote implies nothing of the sort. (see jake's reply). reading racism into every comment (especially when there is a sensible alternative reading handy) is counter-productive. the FA should/could have been more thoughtful before deciding to grandstand and score political points. you too.

and knock off the LFC = racist talk.  without evidence, that's just name calling. and thats offside around here.

You missed the key word 'alone'. You cannot find someone guilty based on one man's testimony. It's that simple. You're reading too much into it.

Just want to express my opinion here: I'm right behind Suarez through all of this.

I understand the complexity of the whole mess, and the fact that we can only hypothesize without complete information about events, but frankly, until I'm convinced he's guilty (which I'm not by a long shot), I'm on his side.

Boy do I hate the FA right now.

I think LFC has put itself in a difficult position by defending, hence denying from day 1 that Suarez did anything wrong. A 'No comment' would have been the way to go in this situation IMHO.
Of course LFC can appeal the FA decision, they must do it, there's no way they can back down from those strong statements in defence of Suarez.
But does an appeal really make any sense? You think the FA is saying 'oh well, you're right, Evra's a liar' or something?
If there is indeed evidence of Suarez racially abusing Evra, an appeal means further damage of the image of Suarez and LFC, If there is no more evidence than Evra's word, you have to ask yourself why he should lie about it, which is probably what the FA is asking itself as well.

I hate to say it, because I love Luis as a footballer and as a part of the LFC family, but the wee man has to grow up. This is not the first time Luis made the headlines with some dubious action on the pitch. Stop feeling and acting like a little child on the pitch, you're a professional footballer

First of all I, like Noel, do not condone any form of racism in society as well as sport. I think that the FA have tried to make an example of Suarez! They had already confirmed he was guilty BEFORE the hearing! They dragged it out simply for affect! They have tried to send a message to Sepp Blatter and FIFA that the 'almighty' FA always take action against any form of racism in the game! Bravo! Suarez was in the wrong place at the wrong time! He never stood a chance...

Does anybody know where there is a highlight video of the United game? I've searched all over the internet every video mysteriously seems to have been taken down. I remember when watching that most of the spats between Suarez and Evra were on the tv. Just wanted to watch them again myself. Thanks. YNWA-Luis Suarez

btw, "dont you touch me you south american" is perhaps the lamest diss i've ever heard in my life.  really? "south american"?  i dont even know if thats racist, its so stupid...

Was that comment originally in Spanish or English?

The LFC statement claims it was in Spanish.

Objectively, this could be worse, as it's the 20th, and we've got time and hopefully money to buy a new second striker in the January window. It's not the end of the world until we sign some 'proven British talent' in Steven Fletcher.

The fact that Evra admitted to making racially (Don't touch me you South American!) abusive remarks and has not been given the same punishment is a crime. I am fine accepting Suarez 8 game ban if Evra is serving the same. But Jesus... one person admits to saying something racist and the other one is punished?

Better be ready to step up Andy Carroll.

I didn't read this piece, nor do I intend to, because my opinion on Luis Suarez does not require evidence. The disgusting Argie scumbag is quite obviously racist, and I bet you $10,000,000 that you can't convince me otherwise. 

(I can only hope the sarcasm in this is detected.)

so, Lionel Hutz is working for the FA now...
good for him.

All I want is transparency, not two lines saying "Suarez used insulting language, related to Evra's skin colour."

I wanna know what language was used, how many times and what evidence there was to support it.

Evra originally claimed that:
"There are cameras, you can see him. He says a certain word to me at least 10 times." 

"I was very upset. In 2011 you can't say things like this. He knows what he said, the ref knows it, it will come out. I won't repeat what he said, but it was a racist word, and he said it more than 10 times. He tried to wind me up. I won't make a huge deal out of it, but it's very upsetting and disappointing." 

I think it's widely accepted that there was no video footage of the word being used, the referee didn't know about it and nobody else heard it.

So clearly Mr. Evra's claims are exaggerated and unreliable again.  In a he said she said case like this, that should be enough to discredit his evidence.

Racism has no place in the game.  It's bad but so is unfairly tarnishing a player as racist who isn't.

The FA should publish the reasons for their decision, all Tribunals have to be transparent and accountable.

"The FA should publish the reasons for their decision, all Tribunals have to be transparent and accountable"

You hit the nail right on the head here. Of course the FA is not an open institution, which means that, ultimately, it gets to do what it wants, including sweetheart sessions with friendly journalists.

The truly aggravating thing with this is that Suarez might have genuinely said something racist, but the FA's inquiry is acting in an apallingly paternalistic manner and expecting us to just accept whatever they say uncritically. the fact that this has gone on for two months is beyond ridiculous.

I suspect that this will get worse yet.

Reading the comments here, it is interesting how many people think this case is about racism. To me, it is a straightforward ManU vs Liverpool thing, with Ferguson using his power to seize on an opportunity to do damage to us. He clearly told Evra to file the complaint, owns the FA, and conveniently has Suarez set to be suspended exactly when they play us next. He hates Liverpool and plays dirty.

http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/1...

The view from Paul Tomkins.

I know that I haven't commented on here in a while (but I've still been reading regularly!) I feel that I have to come out of the woodwork to comment on this.

I think that most of us can agree that racism has no place in the game, but then, when the FA cracks down on it, people get upset.  I agree that a "he said-he said" situation is far from ideal, but honestly, what kind of proof do all of you expect?  It's a loud stadium.  It's unlikely that Suarez would shout something like this for all to hear. 

As much as I hate United, and as much as I think that Patrice Evra is a douche, it would be astounding if he made something like this up.  Yeah, sure, it will be nice to get a rival banned for a few matches, but I don't think that he would take something like this so lightly.  Some things are more important.  This is one of them.

When everything went down with Busquets and Barcelona last spring, I was disgusted by the way that Barca stood by him despite VIDEO EVIDENCE that he called Marcelo a monkey.  And right now, I'm really frustrated that Liverpool effectively brought up the "but he has black friends!!!" argument to defend Suarez.  Seriously?  

As a Liverpool supporter, it really sucks that Suarez is out for eight matches.  But you know what?  I think that the FA publicly taking a stand and saying that racism is unacceptable is a lot more important than whether Liverpool wins or loses those eight games.  Honestly, I love this club--but I also like to think that I have some perspective.  

hey katie, your comment has shown us how ignorant you are of this situation. Are you saying that evra could be saying the truth and suarez is actually racist??... in a hot football match players will say whatever it takes to get the edge over other players (i have persoanlly done this in a football match) and thats whats happened in the busquets situation, it doesnt make him a racist.

By the way, i am black and my white girlfriend calls me nigger when we have fun and when we argue. that doesnt make her racist does it?

all this racism shit is getting mixed up in england,.
LFC should hire some good lawyers and take the FA to court

First, I want to say that I never said that Luis Suarez is racist.  I believe that he said something that is racist.  It is essentially impossible to prove that someone is racist-- how can you prove what someone's intent was? 

Jay Smooth explains this pretty well in a video that's been making the rounds for a while:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v..., if we always judged situations based off of what we think that someone's intent was, sexual harassment basically wouldn't exist.  In those cases, it is not how the "sexual harasser" intended for an action to be perceived, but rather, how it was received by the recipient.  Here, it's definitely a grey area-- if it's true that Suarez used words that are very common and non-offensive in South America that are offensive here, it's difficult to judge what he meant when he said them.  

With regards to your acceptance of racism within the confines of a game to "get the edge over other players," it's very obvious that we are going to have to agree to disagree on that.  I think that racism is unacceptable in any context.  Sports are not an exception.  What Busquets did was a disgrace.  Whether that makes him racist or not, I obviously don't have that information.  But he obviously said something that was racist, and for that, he should have been punished.

And finally, I am not going to respond to your comments about you and your girlfriend.  I really don't see how that is relevant.

I'm not ignorant about this.  I just disagree with you.  Please don't talk down to me.

Hey Katie, we've talked this through before on twitter and I rate your opinion highly. There's no doubt that some people have reduced this to a LFC vs ManUre issue or blindly decided that "y'know, the whole racism thing hasn't been proven, so you can't punish him". 

I agree, as before, that these are simplistic and ignorant viewpoints. I agree, as before that not being able to conclusively prove racism is hardly a reason to assume innocence. I am also on record as stating my revulsion at ANY racism being associated with LFC and that I'm ready to throw the book at Suarez if he's guilty. It's just impossible to escape the greyness and ambiguity on this one, primarily because of the way it's been conducted by the FA.

I remember what my old hero John Barnes had to endure and, as a 13 year old, I found myself in the dangerous position of admonishing a couple of ignorant middle-aged twats on the Kop who thought they were hard men calling Digger a "black bastard" because he only beat 4 men on his previous dribble. We cannot be naive about the reality and ugliness of casual racism.

My point is, most right-thinking people believe racism is abhorrent. However, I am willing to go with my gut feeling here that in the absence of conclusive evidence, while considering the protestations of innocence from Suarez and the UNEQUIVOCAL and hardline support from LFC and a man of such unquestionable integrity as Kenny Dalglish,...bearing all of that in mind, I don't see how I have a choice but to continue to have faith in Luis and the club. 

If we were left with any strong feeling of justice being done, we could sadly accept it and move on but the club clearly believe there has been a miscarriage of justice here and that Suarez is a victim of the FA playing politics. Like I say, in many ways, even a clear guilty verdict would have been preferable to this.

I'm going to reply to all of you, and hope that you all see it.  First off, I am really happy that we can have a respectful dialogue about this-- I am constantly blown away by how intelligent people are on this site.  I know that what I'm saying isn't popular, but the way that you all just responded to me makes me have a little bit more faith in the internet.

I agree with all of you that I would like to see more evidence, or the basis on which the FA made their decision.  I do think that it will be released.  But the reason that I brought up the Busquets incident was to argue that it seems like there is NEVER enough evidence--in the eyes of fans, at least--that will convince them that what a player said was racist.  There aren't a lot of solid details on this, and as much as I hope that will change, I'm not sure if most fans would ever accept that Suarez is truly guilty.  Obviously, Suarez should not be punished for what Busquets did. That wouldn't make any sense, and that's not what I'm arguing.

I understand why many people are taking an "innocent until proven guilty" approach to this, but what about the reverse-- if Suarez is innocent until proven guilty, then that means that Evra is lying until we prove otherwise.  Perhaps it's just my white guilt speaking (and yes, I have a lot of white guilt) but I just can't accuse anyone of making up racism.  I'm sure that Evra has experienced racism his whole life, and he would definitely know what the stakes are in reporting this incident.  Like I said, some things are bigger than football.  As beneficial as it might be for him to get a rival sidelined for eight games, he has to know that if he "inappropriately" plays the "race card," that he will be doing every person of colour a huge disservice.  

Finally, I want to say that I'm not necessarily saying that Suarez is racist.  That's incredibly difficult to prove, if it can be proven at all.  One can not be racist, but simultaneously say things that ARE racist.  This is a "what you said" argument, not a "what you are" argument.  Naturally I hope that if Evra was racially abusing Suarez, this will be investigated as well.  It should be obvious that I don't enjoy it when my players get eight-match bans!  But it should also be obvious that two wrongs don't make a right.  Punish them both, fine.  But don't use any comments that Evra may have made as an excuse for what Suarez may have said.

We'll all probably have to agree to disagree on this, which is cool.  We're all mature adults, which is more than I can say for most people who comment on blogs.  I will continue to read this blog and laugh out loud at the LFC Offside Twitter account.

If there was a video of Suarez like that of Busquet then I could see your point.  But there isn't.

You say that you have a hard time believing that Evra would make up an accusation of racism. However, he accused the ref, saying "you are only booking me because I am black."  So, by your logic, the ref is a racist because Evra said/thought he was, and should be punished.  Instead, maybe Patrice is a bit paranoid and is wont to level this accusation inappropriately?

Please read what I wrote before commenting.  This will make a conversation a lot easier.

How many times do I need to say this: this is not about determining whether Suarez is racist or not.  This is about determining if he said something racist.  You are not using my logic.  You're using the logic that you think I'm using, despite the fact that I have repeatedly said that I am not necessarily accusing Suarez of being racist.

And finally, I did not suggest that there was a video of Suarez racially abusing Evra.  Again, please read what I actually said.

Well first off, I'm glad you took my comment in the spirit that it was intended. I re-read it later and was worried it would come across as a bit hostile which of course was never my intention.

My main issue with this case is the blind eye turned toward Evra's racially charged comment, the complete lack of any evidence and the monarch/totalitarian-like bringing down of punishment without any clarity, justification or transparency. I agree that for many fans, no amount of evidence is enough and I would like to think for the intelligent, responsible majority of Liverpool fans, a reasonable convincing amount of evidence would be enough to make us change our tune. If a Busquets-like video was released by Sky, I'd happily throw my support for wee Luis out the window and fully support whatever sanction is handed down. It wouldn't even take a video for me, just one other person (ref, ManU or Liverpool player) to convince me. But as the case stands today, the lack of any sort of justification and the blind eye turned toward Evra's comments, I am left wholly dissatisfied. 

You say you can't accuse anyone of making up racism, but that's not really the issue. According to the FA, it's Suarez who's on trial here, not Evra. If tomorrow I was accused of murder (God fucking forbid), I (hopefully, anyway) would be innocent until proven guilty. No matter how weepy the mother of the victim gets, until the trial is over no verdict can be handed down. This is not to say the weeping mother is lying. It just means that without proving my guilt beyond any reasonable doubt, condemning me would potentially be tantamount to condemning an innocent man for a crime he didn't commit. Extreme example, I know, but if the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" holds for murder, why can it be so casually tossed out the window when dealing with a war of words? Especially one that was potentially caught on several cameras and happened in close proximity of nearly 10 other people. Any scrap of evidence beyond Evra's word is all I'm asking for.

Hope you spend less time in the woodwork and comment more often. We can never have a shortage of people who are capable of intelligence debate. Or people who rock cool sunglasses. 

I'd agree with you that I wouldn't take the "but he has black friends" argument as a point to base on and disappointingly enough that statement itself distracts everyone else away from other clear points that this is one man's word against another, can the verdict passed be justified based on such circumstances? 

Neither is it surprising that most national media have used that statement above and claim that it is a weak defence whilst ignoring that Evra had mentioned something of a similar nature, yet there is no mention of a charge. 

This case has got me all curious over how the verdict is passed and based on what nature of evidences as having a "racist" label/stigma on you is no laughing matter whether you're a sportsman or an ordinary person. Doesn't "innocent till proven guilty" still stand? Then why are national papers using the term "RACIST" when what the FA has released a verdict without the evidences they actually base it on? 

I replied to your comment above

You know I think well of you, Katie, but are you really saying that to have perspective one has to assume that, lacking actual evidence either way, Suarez is lying? You say it would be astounding if Evra made something like this up, but the inescapable inference that comes from such a statement is that you're more than willing to believe that any protestations of innocence by Suarez are entirely fabricated.

I also fail to see how a case where a player escaped punishment despite clear video evidence should play any role in an entirely seperate case where no clear evidence has been offered in support of the accusations. Punishing Suarez without proof does not somehow redress a cosmic imbalance caused by an opposite injustice. Because one person who shouldn't have got away doesn't mean that justice is served by the next person who comes along being declared guilty of the same crime regardless of evidence—that's just one more damn injustice.

No mater how noble a goal stamping out racism may be, I see no silver lining in Suarez being used as a convenient means for the FA to show how progressive they are sat next to La Liga and FIFA—not if solid proof doesn't exist. Building a better world through the destruction of those who haven't been proven to have done anything wrong doesn't sound like much of a better world to me, but I suppose I've never been big on the ends justifying the means.

You've highlighted the very reason why Liverpool supporters are cheesed off. Busquets had video evidence confirming his crime. In our case, Evra claimed the referee heard it and that the racial epithet was repeated over TEN times in front of hundreds of cameras broadcasting the action in glorious high definition. Suarez claimed it was a name his teammates regularly call him and even they were surprised by his reaction. Where is their testimony? The ref's testimony? One of the many cameras in the stadium catching just ONE of the "over ten times" Suarez allegedly uttered the insult? Busquets was captured on film the lone time he uttered "mono" at Marcelo; it's entirely reasonable to expect Suarez word of choice to be captured at least once when he's allegedly used it so many times. 

Why have we not seen the evidence the FA have used to convict? Yeah, its important to take a firm stance against racism, but justice is just as important. Suarez is innocent until proven guilty. Selling an innocent man down the river to win political brownie points is not something that should make anyone happy or be encouraged in any way. Our goal is to stomp racism where it exists, not take a man who hasn't been proven guilty, take him out back and shoot him as a warning to actual racists. 

And lastly, what of Evra's "you South American" remark? It's clearly being used in a derogatory way. If the FA is punishing ignorance and racism, surely that statement is worth looking into as well. No matter who you are or what colour muffler you wear, there's just no defending this farcical decision. 

Stamping out racism and ignorance is extremely important, not just in football but in every other aspect of life. But justice cannot take a backseat to a political agenda.

I replied to your comment above

No comment on Suarez's alleged guilt or not, but 8 games?! What the fuck? So, dangerous, reckless players who break legs, ruining careers or otherwise setting back promising players' careers by a year or more get 3 games, while accused racists, without any irrefutable evidence, get 8. Madness, simple madness.
Oh wait- Mssrs. Taylor & Shawcross are Her Royal Majesty's loyal subjects. My bad. Carry on.

the fact is verbal abused wrongly has a unmentioned rating system a bit like the rediculous ratings system prisoners have eg murderers are high up the chain depending on who they kill if you kill an adult this gives some fucking stupid morale high ground over the those who say kill kids or rape scum is scum yes?
Well the same can be found inverbal abuse its name calling wether its racial,religous or any other it just seems the holly grail of name calling for point scoring is race and anti semetism (watch the labels start flying)homosexuality seems a little lower down the list.verbal abuse is repugnant in any version so why the difference we can choose to let them offend us or grow up and enlighten the ignorant.on a seperate thought why is the word nigga not offensive when someone of colour uses it but when whitey does all hell is let loose to allow one race of people to use a term while excluding another is in itself, YES you guessed it RACIST

So am I right in thinking at this point in time Suarez has an 8 match ban based on the following exchange:

Don’t touch me, you South American,’’ Evra is alleged to have said. To which, the Uruguayan replied: “Porque, Negro?’’

and as yet unsubstantiated claims that this word was used approx 10 times throughout the match.

Is there any other evidence I'm missing?

If so, I'm assuming we're all waiting for the evidence of the claim that 'negro' was used approx 10 times throughout the match?

Yes, that seems to be the case.  Except depending on who you ask, it might not have been 'you South American', but rather the n-word equivalent of it.  That makes it a bit more interesting when only one side is charged.

And yes, there's no evidence of any of the other 9 times.  We can just assume that Evra was pissed and felt he was being slurred repeatedly, whether it's ten times, seven times, twice or even just once.  In any case, as we know giving unreliable and exaggerated testimony isn't a chargeable offence.  

And presumeably there's also this other incident before the sudaca/negro exchange that factors into the case.  This was when Suarez supposedly called Evra something in a crowded penalty box and no official or player from either side heard it or saw it, and no camera or microphone picked it up.   

I want to kick the collective FA, ManUnited, Evra in the balls.

You know what pisses me off the most, if Suarez was a ManUnited player, none of this would have EVER transpired (same thing applies to if Suarez was English). If Suarez had said Porque Negro or whatever, the FA would have been falling over their collective butts to protect him. I can't prove this would happen and I know I'm being entirely irrational but seriously that's what it feels like right now.

Great post Noel.

You have to wonder why release the findings without the report?  Seems guaranteed to let the press and public go off on one, and leave the case decided kangaroo court style, without the explanations to analyse.

Evra went straight to French tv to publicise this initially while SAF was running around sanctimoniously claiming Utd weren't saying anything.  Mud sticks.
This while apparently Fabio, rafael and Hernandez commonly use 'el negro' with Evra.

Whatever happens, lets hope all the lads stick closely together and use this as the ultimate motivation to raise their game and their commitment to the cause.  Win it for Luis.  We've lost our best player before and coped with it.  We can always deal with it.

I don't disbelieve you, but is there evidence that this is the case?

Damn - "This while apparently Fabio, rafael and Hernandez commonly use 'el negro' with Evra."

I don't disbelieve you, but is there evidence that this is the case?

I think this might be related to one of the Liverpool or Suarez comments that he used a word that Evra's fellow teammates use.

I get that, but by naming 3 players, I didn't know if this was a commonly known thing that has been referenced - twitter comments between these 3 for example.

Well in Noel. Balanced and fair, even in the face of some heinous hatchet jobs on Suarez and the club by the likes of Oliver Holt and David Maddock in The Mirror within an hour of the verdict.

Let me just echo my already expressed sentiments on this whole thing:

It's sickening. It's the last thing I want to see associated with LFC. If Suarez is guilty of racism, throw the book at him but if not, well....

I've said a million times that this is, ironically, not a black and white situation....it's GREY, people.. That said, how have those incompetent gimps in the FA managed to turn it into such an almighty clusterfuck of ambiguity and foggy thinking?! 

Produce the evidence, explain the charge. It may not be possible to definitively say if Suarez had any malicious intent or if Evra is a paranoid liar, but if you are going to announce to the world that Luis Suarez is "guilty" of racism and dole out an eight game ban, can you please fucking explain WHY? 

Racism is not acceptable at LFC and like Noel,  I find it hard to believe they would risk their burgeoning status worldwide in some kind of blind defence of the indefensible and that is why so much of my peace-of-mind depends on my faith in the integrity of Kenny and others at the top of the LFC tree, here. The statement is emphatic, aggressive and indignant. It would be easier if we could all feel that way. Many of us are uneasy about this, however...precisely BECAUSE of the greyness I spoke of earlier.

Now, if the club do appeal, how long will this debacle continue to sulley the reputation of LFC? What of Suarez in the interim? 

This is grim stuff. If he simply serves the ban can you even begin to imagine the situation on his return?! Imagine the tabloid demonisation. Imagine the wider media campaign of hate. Imagine the poisonous atmosphere at away grounds. Jesus, imagine the refereeing decisions.... 

This raises the unpalatable possibility that Suarez's position may become untenable. That the move to Real or Barca that we all secretly feared might well happen sooner rather than later. And again, will we ever know the truth that leads to such a cataclysmic scenario?

The whole thing has left me utterly despondent and nauseated. There's more than a whiff of impropriety and injustice here but if the case against him was proved I'd be the first to wave the guy off. FA incompetence has denied us the chance of any clarity outside of "he did it 'cause Patrice said so".

On a purely footy note, Kenny has got some serious horse-whispering to do with Big Andy now.....

Well in Trev. I'd say that David Maddock should defer to Kenny's and wee Henry's opinion on whether they feel betrayed or whether they feel that Liverpool's or their reputations are at stake. The article is all "well intentioned" crap. "Kenny should offer up a "mea culpa" Wednesday morning before he can turn his mind to finding reinforcements in January". Really? Somehow, I don't see that as a course of action under consideration. How about we let them make those decisions?

The overwhelming objective of the FA should have been to issue an opinion and verdict that not only is fair and balanced, but, more importantly, is seen to be fair and balanced by all parties, given the available evidence and the surrounding circumstances. The lack of any conclusive proof and the limited sources of "evidence" didn't seem to impact the decision at all. An 8 match ban given the existing "evidence"? Come on. How many incidents of obvious violent physical conduct toward an opponent have received MUCH less of a penalty? Hell, there are cases of guys saying "they didn't really mean to do it" (break an opponents leg) and get a slap on the wrist.

Instead of appealing to the better Angels of our collective spirits and reaching down to offer a helping hand up to the moral high ground, they ceded that territory and buried it under a mountain of anger and frustration.

This decision smacks more of the FA considering what is best for them and not what is appropriate based on the incident and evidence.

Suarez as I understand hasn't been charged for racism but for misconduct which is quite different.I know at the popular level it won't change anything but I still support any fight back against this decision made by three man panel whose past my be put under scrutiny and their ties with some specific interests as well. Just dig out and you'll uncover weird things.
Mr Goulding comes
from the same Blackstones chambers as Adam Lewis, the barrister employed by the
FA in Wayne Rooney’s successful Uefa appeal last week!?
And on behalf of what is considered a qualified FA coach as some would suggest?

Also
involved as a second member is Brian Jones, the chairman of Sheffield and
Hallamshire FA. The fact he wrote to all his county members on June 20, stressing the
need to fight discrimination doesn't make of him an angel in white. (This strategy that consists of bringing in the "good guy" above all contingencies must hide some dirt under the nails) Is this the only reference on his CV? A letter he wrote to his tiny county members?Does it make him qualified to have the right judgement for such a sensitive matter implying the mighty Liverpool?

The third
member is Denis Smith, a former Stoke city defender and a former manager of clubs such as Sunderland and Oxford United.We were told he's respected within the game,Who said that? I see in him more of a manservant than a justice,but this is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Well, now besides the three man panel,two representatives from the FA secretariat for legal issues were present too and have interfered with the debate constantly, directing spotlights at will at some areas at the expense of others as if Evra was guilty of nothing and was the only one to be allegedly harmed in this case.

Now I described the three man-panel,a legitimate question springs to mind,who picked them over other personalities more capable of dealing with big clubs and big issues and when did that happen? This is not an innocent question,knowing the process will speak volumes about the decision those people biased or not have made.Someone somwhere must adress these questions...

At the end of the day this is not an indpendant regulatory commission,if it were up to me an independant regulatory commission would've included two former big players from big clubs whith one of them  being black and the third member being a justice to moderate the debate with the due process of law without any freaks from the FA present at the meetingand trying to interfer with the debate(hearing sessions). I am stunned the legal departement at LFC has done nothing about that.

Finally isn't it weird that the decision was delayed until the festive period? let me just recall you that last year at the same period of time Suarez was serving a seven games ban after biting a opponent from Eridivise.We went for him when he was looking for a fresh start elsewhere,that leads me to think everything has been planned here as if the "smart boys" of the FA were not plotting just one game more ban than last year but a total ban once and for all from UK.

And what really hurts me is the fact that Suarez has really been mistreated by both players and refs on the pitch since day 01 and by the yellow press off the pitch as well. But when it comes to the FA,you can't describe it, this is a new low since the bill of rights of 1688.Charging a player regardless to any due process of law or regulations is vey bad, he should've been heard at least prior to any further move.Sounds weird, and when you know that the decision was delayed on purpose to force Suarez's hand and make him think about leaving at the verge of the January transfer window, it stinks...

Anyway, right now my concern is about Suarez's
family,can his wife bear such a pressure in a cold and chilly country
while her hubby can ply his trade in the sunny side of Europe? Nobody knows but his family must have our total support until Suarez sees the end of the tunnel.

There's no doubt The KD-Suarez combo has revitalized Liverpool FC by making other major teams fear our come back,bar the game vs Spurs we have dominated all the teams we faced but were a bit unlucky and then unable to convert our chances into goals.

I sense the hidden opposition at the government and parliamentary level,with their allies within the walls of dirty financial strongholds have grown unhappy with our progress on the field and our hype and thirst for jstice and truth about the hillsborough dramatic events,this coalition that has its specific interest in maintaining the football industry under "control" has now fired back to destroy our brand once again the same way they did in the past,what is at stakes is way beyond Football but we can fight back and we will give them a fearsome fight.
Neither Suarez nor our Club will walk alone,we will always fight with them side by side even if we have to storm the FA building...mark my words.

He may have been said to be "guilty of misconduct" but the he's just being labelled a "Racist" by most if not all non-lfc media/club/fan outlets.  How is that justified, seeing that they released the verdict with no explanation for the evidences that the verdict is based on?

Excellently put, Trev.  You said everything I was going to say, and helped clarify why I feel so angry about this.  Why can't we see the evidence?  Why the secrecy?  Whose reputation are they trying to protect?  It's not like the charges against Suarez were made in secret.  We know the accused, the accuser, and the people who conducted the trial, but we can't know the facts that led to their decision? 

The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  I feel angry, disgusted, and sad, all at the same time.  Fuck the FA and this stupid, drawn-out show trial.  

Nicely put Trev. I would have used way more f-bombs.

Nicely put Trev. However, if LFC do appeal any sulleying of the club would be premature, and of course, premature judgement has not been in short supply up to now.

As you suggest, to me it seems imperative that LFC appeal. Can they use the laws of defamation if it comes to it? In any case, it is extremely hard to see a way in which the FA could have screwed the situation  up more.

And on the football note, does this mean that Suarez is out even if LFC do appeal?

I feel the same, you know all the right words to say. 

Cheers Kenny, I'm sure we'd both rather I was making inane observations on how swimmingly life is going at LFC Towers...

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxso...

Probably already seen by most, and it being fox isn't as prestigious as the guardian or bbc, I know, but I still felt I should share it

As a United fan I have to agree with much of this.  We await more details tomorrow the LFC statement was certainly very strong and after 10 weeks not made in the heat of the moment.  No one is a winner here, personally even if it was decided on the evidence that Suarez made a racist comment(s) then I think counselling and mandatory work on the Kick Racism out of the football campaign would be more relevant punishment. 8 game bans should be for people trying to break other peoples legs. 

Thanks for the fair-mindedness Brigitte

well made point.  

Education is far more valuable than punishment if there is any suggestion of racist intent.

FFFFFUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKK me. Well if anyone can find me in the hole I dug for myself in my backyard and drag me out, drinks will be on me, for everyone

Oh well at least that other word class striker will get a game now maybe

You mean we are in on Eto'o?

"The other Mike"

It's pretty obvious that this is a political "get out" by the FA (Ferguson Association), after the Blatter bullshit, and also paves the way for them to whitewash Terry, once the police conclude that there is no case to answer.... And the serial accuser, Evra, gets off scot free..... again... Judging by the reaction on the Manscum websites this evening, they're all loving it...

There is nothing to love about this whatever your colour.  Just for the record you might want to read the FA Report - Evra made not accusation of racism against the Chelsea groundsman, it was Mike Phelan and when questioned Evra did not support the claim.

I've always tried to avoid the parochial, one-misty-eyed scouser stereotype, the 'why always us' attitude, but this case is making it difficult.

One can only assume the FA must have some decent evidence to back up this length of ban, based on the scenarios we've heard of 8 games seems hard to justify compared to people who break legs getting 3-5 games.

I can't help but feel if this had happened in a Championship game nothing would've happened. FA maybe using the situation as a political opportunity.

This is probably the most level-headed account I have read so far: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/h...

Clearly Suarez was winding him up, just like lots of great strikers do to defenders (Fowler, Torres, C Ronaldo), so anything he said can at the very least be taken as passive-aggressive, pal. It's clearly a complex case, and neither player comes out of it looking very good. I'd also support the ban if all disciplinary infringements were dealt with so heavy-handidly, but I don't think that will happen.

I'd be interested to see if Liverpool appeal, if we do and the 8 game ban holds then Suarez will miss the Man U game in feb, which fergie would love...

And a genuine question here- what's going on with the John Terry case?

I really appreciated that article that you posted.  It is a wonderful account in many ways.  My favorite passage is this one:

"There is little to be gained in hectoring other nations and individuals with a moral high ground position of, "We're not racist, you are". Instead, there might be room for a position of leadership with a huge dose of humility."

The FA is doing exactly that here (the hectoring, not the leadership).  How arrogant for them to levy a ban of this length without releasing the "facts" of the case at the same time.  If it isn't political posturing, then what is it?  At best incompetence, for not releasing the necessary information to prove to the discerning public that this decision was in the right.  At worst, it is blatant xenophobia, an outright attempt to make a political point against a foreign player.

I also agree with Red2death, that as good as the article is, it missed on one key point for me - that it assumes Suarez's guilt, which is a big point of contention.  Until we know the facts, that is not a conclusion you will get me to.  Of course I am biased here, but I'd like to this that if this happened to another player in the EPL I'd think the same thing.  Sure, I wouldn't be as fired up about it, but if I read about this happening to Aguero, Nani, Balotelli, et. al., I'd at least say "Wow, something's not right there."  And that's what pisses me off.  

Maybe in the coming weeks the "proof" the FA hinged their decision on will surface, but if it doesn't....fuck those hypocritical assholes.

Nice account, but I think it does miss the point.  Everyone agrees that racism is bad and should be punished accordingly.  Whether or not the situation is made political is of course another point of debate.
But what's at hand here is whether there's even a case to begin with.  You have an accuser and the accused.  You have plenty of witnesses, but none of them able to say anything that would lend any credibility to the accusations.  Moreover, the accuser hasn't been able to produce anything to corroborate any of his claims other than his own word.  In a court of law, there's not even enough evidence for a decent case, let alone a conviction.  

Some transparency definitely appreciated. 

Setting aside the urge to speculate and say nasty things about the FA, supposedly they can't rule on Terry while the police are involved.

If the FA try and withold this imaginary evidence liverpool fc and saurez
have no option to take the FA and the three man panel of brian jones of the
sheffield and hallamshire fa denis smith,paul goulding to the highest court in the
land for finding an innocent man guilty and trying to ruin his career and good reputation.