Has Buying British Failed?

The British players Dalglish bought are top players in mid & low table clubs. It's a hit and miss game. So far I don't think it's bad, although I feel some stubborness in his starting XI (like if Guyt is good for Holland, then how could he be not good enough for LFC?) If he gains the confidence from the new owners, not necessarily defined by a CL spot or any trophy, he will be entrusted wilth a bigger budget to shop for more quality players like "left out but very good" players from top clubs in Europe. Hasn't Harry Redknapp been doing this in Tottenham? I can't say if I am prophetic here. But this new ownership bought a Major League Baseball team called the Boston Red Sox in 2002. Two years later, the Sox ended its championship drought in 89 years.

At this point. 4th looks like quite a tall order. It all depends on how convincing Dalglish is in the eyes of the owners.

we also need a subsidize midfied when Gerrard is not in

Steven Gerrard should on liverpool matters

great post Noel. Some fellow Reds are comparing the squad this year versus last year's, of course the squad is better this time round, but considering we spend around 100 mio pounds, our squad could be MUCH better.

The squad is, not necessarily the starting XI.

Dang it, posted the Carroll video link in the wrong thread. Sry for the double post, Ed & Noel.

http://bit.ly/uMkoBl

Am I doing something wrong - it shows 4 secs of the clip, then an ad comes up...

No, you should just click the link, go to the site and the video loads and plays. There are sometimes some small ads at the bottom that you can click to close, but not enough to block the video.

I echo those who are saying we should have added 2/3 WC sigings rather than overhaul the squad.

The only transfer out I disagreed with was Meireles.

I don't think its a case of whether buying British has failed or not, because we're still only 11 games in, but my concern with the last transfer window is that we did not capture the signature of players such as Hazard/Gotze/Eriksen/Javi Martinez/Ever Banega/M'Vila/Hummels who are seen as the next big things.

When we were 1st linked with Eriksen for example, he was a $10m sterling player. Now that figure is more likely to be $30m sterling.

Whether its British or not, we need 1 or 2 attacking midfielders who are comfortable operating wide or infield blessed with guile and creativity, not just lung busting effort or hollywood passes.

We also need a possession based deep lying midfielder.
Gerrard is 31, Kuyt 31, Maxi 30 - Adam is a good squad player, Lucas is our only DLM. Hendo/Shelvey have developmental strides to take.

We missed a trick focussing soley on proven EPL performers when some real talents were there to be worked on.

'Whether its British or not, we need 1 or 2 attacking midfielders who are comfortable operating wide or infield blessed with guile and creativity'

--sounds like Shelvey!

The reasons for my disappointments in our purchases:

"The splashing of cash": I agree, that compared to our previous owners, Henry and Co. have shown they are willing to pay. But this wasn't the positive style of splashing that other club's fans would appreciate; I find myself falling into this category. The way I see it, you "splash cash" on players that are in a position of such potential that they are literally going to the highest bidder. Take Neymar for example. You really think he grew up dreaming of playing for Manchester City one day, playing barefoot in Sao Paulo? No, but he's a possible transfer to any team if they are willing to "splash cash" (all respect to Neymar, I don't know his plans, he might very well want to play for Manchester City because of personal reasons, I can't speak for him, just put some other talented player's name in his place). Clubs dip into their retirement funds when they need to act fast, or else another club will snatch them up and use them against us (I probably just gave some of you flashbacks to Arshavin's 4 goals). This requires a lot of research from the agents and people working the transfers at the club, so they know if they have to act quickly or not. Was Carroll's potential really so great that other clubs were lining up to buy him, so we had to make a dead sprint bank-run(AKA Stamford Bridge) to cough up the cash? I like to think that the people running the club are not phased by the meaningless transfer babble that we are forced to read by Sky, and they know if they have to wrap things up or not. With other proven strikers out there on the market, it's apparent that Carroll was not just a quick replacement for Torres, especially considering his injury for most of the season he was with us. In the wage department, we are not like Manchester City, but when it comes to the transfer fees, there are big similarities in our dealings. People make jokes that Citeh will buy anyone who had a good season in form for 20 mil. Well folks, that's exactly what we did, with Carroll, Adam, Henderson, and Downing. Not exactly 20 mil, but you get the point. I'm not a fan of splashing cash at all, really. But my major complaint is that, if we were planning on splashing cash, then we better fucking do it right, and sign Juan Mata, up Meireles' wages, up Aquilani's wages, and pay the damn fee for Phil Jones, don't wait around until the Manc's get him. Because they will, and they did, and they weren't for one second thinking about buying Andy Carroll. You really think those rich clubs could only sign those players because of Champions League football? Then how did Manchester City do it? How did we sign Luis Suarez? If you've got a checkbook, you've got players. Anytime someone mentions "we should have signed Aguero or some other foreign player", someone responds with, "If you're all about 'the now' and just want instant success, go join Chelski". That argument, as it turns out, doesn't mean shit anymore when we have owners that dished out around 116 million (not including Torres income) this year. So speaking of instant success...

"The instant impact British orgy fest": failed. Buying British has failed. According to Noel, we signed players that were "Premier League-proven talent that could make an impact from day one." These players are not Premier League proven talent. Carroll had been in the Premier League for 5 months, Charlie Adam had spent the whole season watching him team fall out their first season in the Premier League, Stewart Downing had just finally made an impact last season, and Henderson is just 20. Like Noel, I like to think Henderson was only bought for his potential, but somehow he's starting over Kuyt.  These players played for clubs that weren't expected to win as much as they loose. Charlie Adam's flaws were ok because he could put one over the Manc's wall. Those flaws don't correlate to a big club. Isn't it weird how every player we bought, besides Coates, came from a club that just arrived from the Championship, was just leaving for the Championship, was fighting to avoid the Championship, or couldn't get any minutes at their old club? Doesn't exactly scream "HOT SHIT", which is what most would say when discussing "premier-league proven mojos". Coincidentally, our best signing of 2011 had never played a minute in England, our second best player barely speaks English as well, and either does our best youth bargain buy (buy one Uruguayan, get one free, bitches! These mothafuckas migrate, togetha!!). 

"Arsenal did better than us": What? The team that I would H8-2 be? Yes. Them. They are our main competition for the 4th place spot. They bought lots of players over the summer that needed to make an instant impact as well. And they did.  When you really look at it, they are very very similar to us in the amount of talent they have. They have RVP, we have Suarez. They have Song, we have Lucas. They have Verm, we have Dagger. They have Sagna, we have Johnson. And their purchases were also similar, but instead of buying English, they bought foreign. Benayoun&Park/Bellamy, Arteta/Adam, Gervinho/Downing, Santos/Enrique, the only difference was they bought a real defender that was ready to start games. And how many goals have they scored now? I guess the defender really isn't making that much of a difference, huh. So what is the difference? I don't think the British thing has anything to do with it, because like I said, we didn't exactly buy Premier League pros. And I'm not some xenophobic idiot that thinks Arteta is better because he's Spanish. The signings were better because the players were better overall, they were cheaper, they could play multiple positions (Benayoun, Gervinho, Arteta), they got proven internationals (in other words, proven adaptors), and in some types of light, they got an equal amount of premier league experience in Benayoun and Arteta. And the most important factor, they HAVEN'T BEEN FORCED INTO THE STARTING LINEUP. Only 2 players have seen significant time in the starting 11. This is Kenny's fault, or whoever he's asking for advice on the lineups. I find it utterly stupid that Arsenal fans wanted to sack Wenger at the beginning of this season. Sack him later, maybe, but he's shown that he can do a better job than say, Dalglish. But....

If the players put away their chances, and we won against Sunderland, Stoke City, Manchester United, Norwich City, and Swansea City, we would have no issues whatsoever right now, because we are making so many chances, and we would be 2nd only to Manchester City on the table. So now it's the player's fault, Kenny's fault, and FSG's fault. So who are we firing again????

The ckeckbook=players argument is flawed. You pay the transfer fee to the club, not the player. It's about the wages. That's the ManCity strategy, if they want someone they tell him 'we double, triple your wages', whatever it takes.
We may now be able to pay higher fees aka splashing the cash, but still I think we're far off in terms of wages we can afford to pay.

You make some good points about Man City, splashing money on wages, not potential, and not forcing players into the lineup, but I think you're pretty off about Arsenal. They have a lot more talent than we do in midfield...a LOT more. 

Arsenal's midfield is filled with top class, quick, technical players who are head and shoulders above ours in terms of quality. Forget about talents like Walcott and Arshavin; you somehow skipped mentioning players like Wilshire and Ramsey, two of the brightest young midfielders in Britain and exactly what LFC's plan on paper calls for. Sorry, but Henderson can't hold a candle to them. And at least their inexperienced young players are physically and technically sound, like Frimpong.And they are not our main competition for 4th. This is a 5-way race for 3rd and 4th and we are barely holding onto 7th right now.

I didn't mention Wilshere because he hasn't played this season, and ask an Arsenal fan about Ramsey's performances this season, especially when they really needed him. You're rght about Henderson, but Frimpong is all physical. Spearing blows him out of the water when it comes to footballing brains, and he's still got some strength. Not arguing, just contributing thoughts to stuffffffff.

I get you, and you had a lot of good points above. I think the formula is something like:

physically superior + technically superior + experienced + used correctly = dominant

Most of our midfield does not make the grade physically, so when you add in that half is being played in the wrong position, it's a bad situation. You can have one slow player in central midfield -- Song, Arteta, Lucas, Parker, none of them are fast -- but having two slow players there is a killer for us even before factoring in Henderson's non-speed on the wing.

Although I do acknowledge that the premium paid for domestic players was rather ridiculous by us, it could be less down to "the player's haven't adjusted like they should have" and more that "The player's are the same as before, they're just not being used properly". Now, I'm not saying the draws and such are entirely on Kenny, but not only do player's have to get accustom to the league and club, but a manager and his staff have to get use to a player and figure out the best way to deploy him in their system.

I guess to condense my thought, I agree with your point that we didn't need to pay the premium for British talent, but its also not ENTIRELY surprising because its not just the league that takes getting use to, its the system and squad and coaching staff

So what you're saying is anything that happens, happens. Anything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Anything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again. It doesn't necessarily do it in chronological order, though.

What???

No, he's saying there's more than one factor in the development of the squad, so it's harder to discern the real reason things haven't worked out optimally. I don't understand why you've busted out the snark, Xabi -- seems a very reasonable comment.

"Adam sucks" can mean "Adam is not a good (enough) player (for Liverpool)", but it can also mean "Adam is not a good holding midfielder but was a POTS nominee as an attacking midfielder, so put him there dammit" or "Adam will be a lot better once he gets used to playing with his new teammates". 

Alex H points out this range of possibilities rather well. Personally, I think if Kenny signed the barnstorming, break-leading attacking midfielder of a team known for crashing the other team's box, he should play him that way or not at all. That run he made vs ManU could happen 5 times a game if he did that.

A little Douglas Adams, PtB --- for some humour and commentary on how in searching for causation and correlation, we forget Occam's razor and drive ourselves mad searching for the question whose answer is 42.

Which, as irony would have it, is a number nowhere to be found within the statistical orgy on the LFC mothership page. *I was so hoping to find something to use*

Hah, that Adams reference totally went over my head.

I was shocked to pick up Hitchhiker's Guide for the first time since childhood recently and see YNWA in there!!

Buying british has not failed completely. Carrol is not worth 35 mil but is Torres worth 50 mil ? So at the end of the day we spent crazy russian money, who cares about that? Andy has also shown that he COULD be a good striker, perhaps not as good as Drogba but better than someone like Crouch.
Downing is Downing, he's running at defenders all his life, he may be an asset on a good team, but will not make much of a difference on a bad team
Adam does some good things and some bad things. It's up to Kenny to find out how to use him. But he was cheap anyway. And he won that f...ing freekick with that nice run against Manu, that counts for something in my book!!
Well and there's Henderson. I dunno what to make of him. I didn't see him playing for Sunderland, did he do better than here? First time I really watched him was the U21 champioship, and I was like 'How much did we pay for that guy?' He was the captain of that team but his play was non existant, pathetic, anonymous, awful, however you want to call it. And that U21 Hendo is the same I'm seeing in red shirt. non existant, but yeah, he's young... but Biscan was young too, wasn't he, and Hendo jus keeps remindin me of Igor...

Ahhh, Igor...yougor...wegor...Eegor.

Wonder what the biscuit-headed beauty is up to these days?

Has buying British failed? Yes of course it has.

Liverpool have not brought a British player who has been a success since Kennys first spell in charge (Barnes, Beardsley). The only British players who have been a success since then have been scousers through the academy (Fowler, McManaman, Gerrard, Carra, Rob Jones,Kelly).

The fact is that British players are over-priced, lack technique, intelligence and most of all talent. I shudder at the money that has been wasted on Henderson, Carroll, Adam and especially Downing.

Now I can understand the argument that Carroll and Henderson are players for the future. But lets be honest neither will ever be top class and for a combined outlay of £50 million that's what you would want them to be/become.

Downing has had a long career of mediocrity at Boro and Villa. If he was right footed he would probably be a Championship player!

Adam had one season playing in a free role for a gung hoo Blackpool team and is suddenly good enough to play for Liverpool?????

Now I to get frustrated by fairweather fans and Kenny will always be King. But lets be honest we have wasted millions on British players who were never going to make the grade. The vast majority of fans shuddered when we saw the crazy money been paid for average British players and sadly we are been proven right. 

When Liverpool have not brought a British player who has been a real success since the late eighties then why on earth did we spend £80 odd million on these 4? Absolutely crazy! 

Exactly my thoughts!. I have been saying the same, for quite a while now, but it seems that some fans refuse take thier blinkers off, when it comes to the king.

I'm forever hoping that I could be wrong, cause obviously we all want them to succeed, but just cannot see it happening, with these players, at all.

I think Bale, Lennon, Defoe, Young, Rooney, Cole (Ashley), Ramsey, Wilshire, Parker, Ferdinand and many others have shown there are fantastic British players with incredible talent, technique and intelligence. Bellamy is another...what a player. And not a single one of these players was overpriced.

The problem is simply that none of the expensive British players we bought are top class, difference makers, dominators who can take over. What managers want for big prices are matchwinners. For 12m each, any of Carroll, Henderson, and Downing are performing just fine. If we had paid 8m each for them we'd all be chuffed to bits right now.

Did you really just use Rooney and intelligence in the same sentence? Bellamy has failed once at Liverpool and is well on the way to doing so again! Lennon is a forest gump, Ramsey is barely established at Arsenal. Parker is average as are Defoe and Young. Bale is a slightly better version of Lennon! Ferdinand and Cole (Ashley) are past their best but were quality and you can have Wilshire he is a fantastic talent (One of the very, very few talented British players).

Rooney's talent and technique are undeniable -- world class. I hate him, but there's no doubt about that. And regardless of his boorish behavior, red mist, and low general IQ compared to the man on the street, Rooney does have an abundance of football intelligence. He knows how to take up dangerous positions, where to play the ball and when.

If you think Bellamy has not been good for us this time around, you're simply not a very good judge of talent. Ask around on this site and see if others agree with you, or state your case. He's been very good so far, with his incredible free kick off the bar and goal in the cup and the layoff to Enrique in the derby the highlights. Or jumping up off the bench and beating Everton with 2 minutes' work is not good enough for you?

Lennon has world class pace, as does Bale, and they are incredible offensive threats on the wing. Did you even see Tottenham's game on the weekend? They took turns destroying Fulham with a directness and quality we haven't seen at LFC for ages...and still came out in the post-match interview saying they should have scored more!

So Bellamy has contributed a goal in a Carling cup game and played a pass to Enrique in the derby and that is about all. I'm sorry but i'm looking for a lot more than that before we can call him a success.

I suppose Rooneys 'football brain' enables him to get sent off in crunch games, give away penalties against Russia, run around like a headless chicken etc. Nothing more than a decent goalscorer. Lets not forget he is SCUM as well!

Lennon and Bale hae world class pace? Yes they do. But so does Usain Bolt but I wouldn't want to see him on the wing (that said he couldn't do any worse than Downing lol)!

Though to be fair Ferdinand was a record at £28+ million and the gerontophile was a record £25 million for a teenager. Cole (it's too too playground to call him Cashley) also cost a fair bit...and that's without reaching for the Tomkins Retail Transfer Price Index...

...but I get your point - there are some good Brits out there.

So there's some new folks around, which is great. I think Noel's article is well deserving of the attention it's getting, and it's mostly generated really interesting conversation.

For those that are new, though, it might be useful to know that we don't really do the least common denominator thing in discussions--accusing someone of not being knowledgeable about football, using their nationality in a negative way, or trying to critique how much of a supporter they are by their opinion. It adds absolutely nothing to the community, which really thrives on civil discussion and humor regardless of differences in opinion. I can't really think of any situation (at least as it pertains to Liverpool) in which putting someone on the defensive solely because they've expressed an opinion is a positive thing.

On the whole, though, really great stuff to read. Just feel free to knock that other shit off.

Noel's article is spot on. The whole idea of buying British especially in the case of players such as Downing, Adams or even Henderson and Carrollis that they need no or very little adjustment to the prem or life in the U.K. KD had failed miserably in adopting this outdated concept and worse his persistence in sticking with this band of overpriced British failures is costing us valuable points. No one can better shows such failures better other than our Suarez who set the Prem on fire on his first game with us, from another country, another league, speaks no English and yet an instant success.

KD and DC had wasted another window not to mention at least 75% of the 100 mill accorded to them with this bunch of flops especially Downing and Carroll. Downing was completely missing as usual against Swansea and their own winger Dyer had looked more like a 20 mill man with his pace and trickery.

Many fans including myself was never convince KD is good enough as a permanent appointment and his lack of foresight, tactical ignorance and plain ego at the expense of LFC proves us right. However some fans who solely based their opinions on emotions and not on merit might disagrees with us though. 

I really don't like this. Disqus is lying. 

Ed, let me be the first to second you here. Knock that other SHIT off. Noel put us in a war zone here.

"First to second" makes me dizzy.

Noels articles and the resulting firestorms make me dizzy. Enjoy em, but a little dizzy.

Note to self: Don't talk about stuff.

Why is Noel's article well deserving of attention? Is it crooked or something? 

Regardless...stick the dictatorial gold-star for effort comments up your Arsenal-Loving, Wisconsin Cheddar hole; you wouldn't know a good set piece if Rooney's wig fell into your lap. 

*Fowler, I love this site on Wednesdays*

Well that just seems rude.

absolutely yes yes yes....look at non british players we have signed...enrique and suarez,they are class apart and both signings have turned out to be bargains,the thing is there is no real british talent coming up so whats the point of paying over the odds knowing the fact that british players are not good enough...
         Sometimes i wonder if rafa had been given this kind of money for transfers.....

Hendo is 21.  Carroll is 22.  Both have England caps.  Coates is 20.  For development, they're sound choices.

Adam [senior] is a mistake in my eyes, though there are sites that love him!  The other seniors bought in, Downing, Bellamy, Enrique are all good signings and have proven it.  

Downing is constantly criticised yet puts blinding crosses in.  The lack of finishing sometimes shows that these guys have only 10 games together, sometimes shows must do better.

The big reason why the first 10 games cannot be considered a failure is the amount of chances created.  2 or 3 of those going in and we'd all be screaming for the title challenge.

Enrique actually is very much a Premier-league proven signing. Suarez and Coates were the only two that we went to a team from another country to buy them.

Not that I think useless whining and raging is useful... but to suggest that, because the King built an English squad into championship winners in 1995 is a reason that we should not whine and rage falls to the exact same fallacy. Isn't the above article doing its best to discuss "self-evident flaws and failings in selection, tactics, coaching and performance." It is one thing to say stop whining; it is quite another to label all discussion whining.

Presuming that's aimed at me, what with the quotation and all...maybe try reading what I actually wrote and then you'll hopefully deduce that I value the articles and discussion on here highly...that was as clearly articulated as I could make it. Maybe I'm in need of a tune-up in my word-smithery. I certainly didn't present the flawed thesis you've attributed to me in your opening lines. Giving something the perspective of comparison with what's gone before doesn't negate the reality of the present...or the validity of expressing our discontent with it. Next thing you'll be telling me I'm "living in the past" like another gent who was good enough to NOT read and then comment. Cheers though....

Not really aimed at anybody, sorry if it came off harsh. My only point was that often times the discussion of flaws and failings gets labeled whining, when in fact it is only discussion. 

Kinda what I was saying too Boogerso...no worries though mate, we won't whine about it!! Hold on to your LFC hat and join me in a prayer to your chosen deity that all our guys return in one piece for the next game.....

I love this idea that City, et al. have no British players. RednRed is right. City are all silva and aguero. Barry = shiite; lescott = shiite; milner = shiite; johnson = shiite; micah richards? = double shiite. 
Silva is beautiful and on the form of his life right now. But his ability to run around and make things happen is a product of milner anchoring that midfield. And we're not getting an aguero for a reasonable price unless we can offer CL play. I know I've mentioned it before, but if we'd bought parker instead of adam (which, at the time, elicited plenty of criticism), I think this discussion would be going in an entirely different direction. One of the questions I have after reading Noel's post is whether you can really say Carroll was bought w/ "buy british" as a foremost consideration. I don't believe it was. I think we had about thirty f'ing seconds to use that Torres money; Mike Ashley is a money grubbing whore; and Kenny saw a 21 year old w/ (I think it was) 14 league goals to date. I think he had clearance to spend 50mm and it's off-point to constantly bring up Carroll's price tag. Downing and Henderson I think were bought w/ "Buy British" in mind. Adam I think was seen as a decent buy at 7mm, but he clearly is not the match winner that he was believed to be. The best point Noel makes, I think, is that Adam and Downing have not "settled in" the side quickly enough to render true the notion "foreign players need time to settle in so we should be wary of buying them." As to that latter notion, see Edin Dzeko, exhibit A. How many articles were written last year about how crap he was? Anyway, let's all drink to the living hell that will be the next two weeks. And pray that little Hazard comes to Pool.

Oh, of course Parker would have been superior to Adam -- mostly because he is actually a holding midfielder, while Adam is not!! 

You may already know that Parker would not have signed for any club outside of London for family reasons. Tottenham were lucky and got a great player for cheap at a position of need, just like we did with Enrique.

Not a chance Hazard comes to us, btw...not a chance...

Sorry about the repeated "I thinks" in there. That's what happens when writing posts while on conference calls. 

People wittering on about Dalglish being a relic from the 80's are utterly wrong and embarrassingly myopic. During The King's first tenure there was little-to-no incoming foreign transfer activity. Kenny's last title at LFC was in 1990 with a side that contained Barnes, Beardsley, Aldo, Houghton and Mc Mahon amongst his notable (British) signings. 

He then took the title off Aunty Fergie just as the manc overlord was beginning to assert his dominance in 1995 with a Blackburn side he built with Jack Walker's money. A remarkable achievement. THAT is the most obvious parallel. Then too, Kenny focused on British talent. He seemed to have decent judgement yet again.

The last thing I am as a fan is some nostalgia-monkey, blinkered or "blindly sycophantic". I may be proved wrong to believe Kenny will get it right but I prefer not to lose my shit in the embarrassing fashion many have. Let's discuss the self-evident flaws and failings in selection, tactics, coaching and performance. We do that well around here. Look at the thread discussing midfield options from Noel's piece on the Swansea game...or more to the point, look at ANY of the balanced pieces he and Ed regularly post.

 To read the bleatings of the "I want it NOW" crowd makes me get a little sick into my own mouth. Anyone can bitch and whine and say everything is shit. We have a lot of that impotent wailing going on in my poor broken little country at the moment. It takes intelligence, patience and understanding to support. That ain't easy. Especially when you think you can see what's wrong, as many of us think we can.

 Look, if you want instant gratification go and buy a fucking burger and jack-off to the latest manc team calendar. If you want to follow the club I love, I insist on something other than clueless moaning about why everything is wrong. With a few notable exceptions, whose drivel I wouldn't dignify with acknowledgement, I get that intelligence here and I thank you all for it.

thats rly innerestin re:kenny's blackburn side, actually. i know next to nothing about that team's makeup, other than when people compare it to now saying that the king's tactics, type of player he signs are very similar to then...

I followed them as a second team purely because Kenny was there and they were the mancs closest rivals. He had brought them up from the second tier in '92, got 4th in '93, 2nd in '94 and won it in '95. The line-up was unlike what he'd done at LFC previously. He had the famous (and record-settingly expensive) duo of Shearer and Sutton up top, Wilcox and Ripley as traaditional wide-men and a creative (Sherwood) and industrious (Atkins/Batty) midfield partnership. A very solid back 4 featuring Hendry and Berg kept them out at the far end with the help of Tim Flowers in nets. No matter what way you cut it...that Prem win was a serious achievement and proof that Kenny was a top manager.

well there u go. cheers.

Stop living in the past mate!. That is exactly what I've been saying all along, with british players, it worked in the 80's, but WILL NOT WORK NOW!.

Football has moved on, and if we keep buying, the best of so called british, while the likes of say Man C keep adding the likes of AGUERO and SILVA to name a few, we will not move forward!!!.

He isn't; he's trying to be even handed. The purpose of the piece was to deal with the central conceit that buying British is good value for money because they won't need time to adjust, making paying over the odds for average to above average talent (with, in the case of Carroll and Henderson, an expectation they have the ability to develop rather beyond that level over the coming years) a worthwhile endeavor because it's the clearest route to short term success and getting back into the top four. That, pretty clearly, hasn't gone according to plan, but it doesn't mean it's the end of the world and that separated from that (undeniably important) conceit many of these players mightn't still "come good."

But most people seem to be taking it as a chance to either say "Kenny sucks!" or "You're an idiot for not being patient!" Perhaps I did a poor job delivering that message, but I'd still hope that everybody could keep things at least a touch civil and productive despite it being an exceptionally difficult topic to address without resorting to blows.

I'm sure most people just saw the EPL experience as just one of the benefits of such purchases, certainly not the main one.

Most realise we don't get to pick and choose who we can buy right now, and if wages go the way Citeh are taking them, perhaps never will again.

I think the biggest characteristic of this side is that everyone north of the defence, bar Lucas is new (with the oldies playing super sub roles).  That's not the usually chosen path of introducing one or two players into an existing system.  

These guys are having to create that system, discover mistakes and then put them right.  They've done very well for 10 games.  It's Suarez and Carroll's finishing that's let us down.

If they develop well in the next 10 games, and the 10 after that then the run in to the end of the season will be excellent.

If I were to be specific, then we need to look at where else the goals come from other than Suarez and develop those discussions/strengths/weaknesses as you must have more than 1 goalscorer.

I think also a part of the strategy is medium-term and commercial: believing the FA will require a quota of British players in a few years, and hoping to have the next Gerrard/Rooney/England captain/star to sell jerseys and build the brand.

For fucks sake, read the comment again before you start dismissing a proper red. He wasn't saying that. I guess you're one of the "notable exceptions" Trev was talking about. Nobody is claiming the Brit buys have been a success but you can't just throw out Aguero and Silva like you're making a point. Those two, like Mata, went where they would get CL this season.

I'm so sick of all this doom and gloom around here from some people. I know we have the right to criticize those when needed since we are fans but so many people are sounding like the season's over and we are 100% screwed. We're not! Okay so things aren't going on track right now. But even though we aren't on track we're still in 6th place, 3 points behind Chelsea and only a quarter through the season. If Kenny got us through the mess last season, why do people have no faith in him to get Liverpool through this bump this season?

And also, for those people who are saying we should have bought world class players, dude we were 6th. And no Europe at all! We should be thanking Kenny and the whole Liverpool FC team for keeping our world class players. And we're not ManCity levels of wealth. Who would have come here? We already got rejected (via transfer rumours) by Mata, Aguero etc etc. I'm almost 100 percent sure that if we could we would have bought world class players. And with the Meireles business. I loved him and I thought he was AWESOME. I was devastated when he left. But he left. He's gone. We can't do anything about it. Saying we should not have sold him ain't gonna bring him back.

People really need to stop jumping the gun. I'm not happy with the results we're getting so far and I know that changes need to be made, especially by Kenny but I'm not about to jump in, guns ablazing and just chant doom and gloom to everyone. There's a difference between constructive criticism and negativity.

Indeed, but it's hard to convince people we can't find top class players for prices like 35m, 20m, and 20m when we just signed a Ballon D'Or candidate for 22m in January.

I think Kenny has raised the expectation level and that's a part of why there's so much complaining. People believed we were headed to the top 4 minimum!

The "top" teams pay a world class player $200K per week and offer CL football. We pay Stevie G. $140K per week. We are not going to bring in those recognized top class players unless we are willing to go to $200K/week like Chelsea and City and CL football. I doubt we are willing to exceed Stevie's wages.

We shouldn't, it's scandalous wages as it is!. There should be a maximum cap, for ALL teams, worldwide, IMO, cause the current system it is so one sided!.

We shouldn't, it's scandalous the being paid wages as it is!. There should be a maximum cap, for ALL teams, worldwide, IMO, cause the current system it is so one sided!.

True, true. But we were in top 4 form last season with Kenny, so spending another 50m and claiming we have this great 35m player who is finally fit and ready to dominate tends to get people's hopes up.

He's on $90K per week wages. Tevez is on $250K per week wages. Carroll is 20 years old, Tevez is 27 years old. Just a small example. I want to win all the home games too and get sick about it when we don't. The guys who are now spitting nails complaining will be the first ones crowing when we have a run.

Top man KC.

On the up side, Skrts has had 2 strong showings and Coates hasn't been pushed to speed up development.  

does the king break up that skrtel/agger partnership after essentially a 100% comfortable, total 90 couple of performances over the past games?  i dont think anyone in the squad has as much political clout as carra does, but maybe kenny rides the hot hand until he has reason not to...?

I dunno, Kelly played well, but with Johnson fit again he's immediately relegated to the bench with practically no chance to feature unless Glen gets injured. Probably the same with Carra, he fit he play

almost certainly.

"It may not be entirely clear exactly what has gone wrong with Liverpool this season, but it’s inescapable that something isn’t right." 

The problem is obvious - the goal frame and crossbar are way too thick. It's a game of inches at times and I'm not sure about the exact number but we must have hit the woodwork at least a dozen times this season. Even if half of those had gone in, the situation and our table position would now be dramatically different. We just need to finish better, or find the next van Nistelroy.

End of last season proved our squad was good enough to compete for top spots.
Let the team that ended last season play (exception Meireles), there's a lot of quality and heart in a line up with Kuyt, Spearing, bellamy, Maxi starting. Carrol, Hendo and Adam should be on the bench to watch and learn what it takes to be in a starting eleven.
For me both Adam and Hendo are played in a wrong position but even played at their right position they're still not qualified for first 11.
We've contracted these players but like everyone else i would prefer 1-2 excellent quality players being brought in or no one at all.
For me it would be a creative midfielder in Gerrards position (4-2-3-1 were Adam today should play instead of being def midfield) and a def midfielder next to lucas with qualities to defend and still being able to make long/short passes forward. Modern def midfielder.
With Bellamy, Kuyt being able to play both on the sides and also as forwards with great attitude i think they should start a lot of games coming months with maxi as first sub.
From the bench Downing, Adam, Carrol could learn what quality, heart for the club and attitude is all about and then prove themselves.

Kenny wants the newbies (and any further purchases) to settle in and develop over the next 2 seasons when the seniors we do love will probably not have contracts extended.  I think Kenny wants them to be super subs to give a strong squad.

We would clearly have been better off with Raul rather than Adam, but despite that being a mistake, that's history.

It's a new team north of the back 4, except Lucas.  These players aren't fitting into an existing system, they're having to create it, make mistakes and have them corrected.  It's a tough ask and for 10 games, they're doing ok.  

The last 10 games of the season will be the most telling and if things go well could get that top 4 finish.  Depends on the goal scoring.

If Carroll and Suarez had taken 2 or 3 of their chances, the picture would be very very different.  3 points off Chelski is no disaster.  

There's an interesting sleight-of-hand going on here (this blog but also at the club).

Quality (nee Kwalitee)

I have never subscribed to the idea of buying quality players for the sake of it - wait, hear me out - most of our great sides featured "good" players who because of their association with a Great Team went on to be known as "Quality".

Similarly, an average player in a good team becomes "Good" by osmosis.

For instance, look at Newcastle at the moment...they've sold their best players (!) and if we'd been linked with any of the remainders over the summer there'd have been an outcry, but they are working well as a team, putting away their chances and scoring when they need to. There's a collective sense of belief that enables them to do this. They are nowhere near as 'good' as Liverpool, but, could they beat us at the moment? Well, yes, they probably could.

Take Swansea (again?) no stand out players but they work as a team and their belief is high at the moment because of it.

Great players are bought to do one thing and that is to change games by themselves on the odd occasions where the team isn't able to influence the outcome of a game collectively. Luis Suarez is a Great player. Gerrard is (was) a Great player.

But, if we get the balance of the team right and the tactics right, we DON'T NEED Great players. We just need good team players that will bust a gut to do their job to the best of their ability. The team spirit will flow, chances go in...

...and those pieces of Anfield woodwork will start to feel lonely and starved of attention. 

Agree with the premise... but disagree that Newcastle's team is nowhere near as good as Liverpool's. They've bought exceptionally well over the past two transfer windows. Ba, Cabaye and Ben Arfa are all great players. They bought one of the right backs of the future in Davide Santon too! They ditched Carroll, Barton and Nolan and finally started playing proper football and look what happens!

team of players > 11 individuals
or:
too many chiefs, not enough indians.

hence all the created chances.  If we can improve from this first 10 games, it is going to be very good indeed.

Why do you think Newcastle have less quality than us? They have superior athleticism and technique. Look at the midfields:

Gutierrez > Downing
Cabeye > Adam
Tiote = Lucas
Obertan > Henderson
Ben Arfa = Kuyt (as a winger, Kuyt is a better striker of course)

Newcastle have a superior midfield to us and that plus a bit of luck is why they're above us in the table. Swansea's wingers are better than ours, too, btw. Our 4-man midfield is a cobbled together mess.

In my opinion Downing is ok and Lucas is pretty good. Henderson and Adam are, too, when played in their correct positions. You're right we don't need great players, but we do need players scouted and selected correctly for position.

I would have a more mobile midfielder over Adam any day of the week.

This isn't the right discussion though given all the chances created.  The real discussion base is where are the goals going to come from beyond Suarez as you need more than 1 goal scorer.

That I think really shows up Adam's weakness as he won't contribute much, not being mobile enough.   Carroll is certainly capable of adding a load and will, Downing and Hendo might be a little light certainly Hendo for now.

My only real concern is Adam may well end up cementing a place in the side and not contribute to goals outside penalties which won't be sufficient unless Suarez and Carroll really light up the sky.

No way Gutierrez is better than Downing or that Tiote is equal to Lucas

gabriel obertan better than hendo?  gabriel obertan?  gabe. obertan.  obertan. gabriel....?!?

Gutierrez + Cabaye + Tiote < Lucas#21fuckingLeiva

But yes, I agree, Adam and Henderson need to play their correct positions. The players we got are not bad, but for the money we paid, they are. I know we didn't exactly pay 35 mil for Carroll because of Torres junkblablabla, but I would rather just have the 25 million Torres was actually worth and just not have Carroll around (don't take that as heartless, because this was considering him BEFORE he was a Liverpool player. Now, he's ours, and no one can take him...unless it's for 35 mil.).

the only problem i see with this 'buy british' thing is the figures get inflated. but its not my money, so its not that big a deal.  i get that we wanna win now an all that, but its impossible to guarantee that a new signing will settle in quickly, regardless of their credentials, birthplace, etc...

beyond the production argument, i just think its kinda cool that liverpool will have a mostly british squad when/if this team progresses to the point where they'll be in the CL again.  i mean, isnt that one of the points of champs league? see a true "spanish" side versus a true "italian" side, and see those two styles at their highest levels battling it out?  i mean, ok, sure hazard wuda been much better than hendo and id take him in a second, but thats not to say that hendo or andy wont be scoring goals in the future that take this team through from the group stages of CL... 

im not british, but shouldnt this be a source of pride rather than a point of criticism for the british clubs/fans/etc?  if we can buy a player of messi levels, then ok, ya, throw the british bullshit out the window, cuz that kind of player can actually change the trajectory of a club for a decade or two.  but 95% of players arent of messi quality and its all about the development of that player, not where that player was born... the quality will be there if the coaching, youth development is good enough.  so long as we have those things sorted (which we seem to have), then ya, sure give us a british identity, why not?

Good Point. Thing is, we already have outstanding young talent almost ready to come through the academy. And we have Shelvey, Flanno, Robinson who have established themselves as talented young british talent who will have no problem stepping up to the plate. My whole point is that instead of throwing cash at more british talent now, why not buy 2 - 3 outstanding world class players, so that when our youngsters do step up, they are playing alongside and learning from world class talent. Isn't that a better future forecast than sticking 3 - 4 average british players in the mix and hoping it all works out???
I can't see Hendo being any better than Shelvey, Wouldnt it have been more worthwhile to inject 16 - 20 m on a talented winger like Mata. I just think we went the wrong way looking at forward...

Sorry, no idea why it came up 3 times....

ya i agree if u can guarantee these world class players, but how many of those are queuing up to sign for the reds at the moment?

That's the thing exactly 'blanca. Once a player is known "world class", without CL, Liverpool is a kinda tough sell. Let's see, I can go to Barca, Real, Citeh($$$$$), Chelski($$$), or hey, Liverpool is fighting for Champions League football, maybe I can make the difference for them. Comolli is actually damn good at identifying "world class" talent before the big clubs see it, and that's what we have to do now. It's not like we don't have any world class playas now, right...Stevie, Luis, Pepe, DAgger. And Enrique, Jonno and Kelly ain't too bad either.

  KD must find a way to beat chelsea in the next match

im actually much more confident going into this 'finish him!' combo of fixtures having underperformed to the point where kenny actually was pissed off during a post-match... guaranteed fire lighting under asses of a deserving few. 

Kenny has got the bigger picture in mind, building a base for the next 5 to 15 years. It is only natural for overseas players to come and go so you need a consistent base and buying British is the way to get it. Same model as Man U, great overseas players have come and gone but the majority of British has stayed to form the backbone of the team.

This way instead of constantly rotating your squad the Rafa way you are making one or two quality signings per year.

Has he gone too far, I think so. Hendo will never be top quality and Adams is a squad player. Was it a mistake to move on Mereiles, absolutely, the man had class, on the field anyway. Is he using Downing properly, No, keep him wide and keep him left, and yes use Carrol more sparingly. 

And like the earlier comment why do coaches always wait until the 75th to 80 minute mark to make a change. This must be the most annoying aspect for any supporter trying remotely coach their side. Against Swansea we had a horrible period from about 50 mins to 75 mins, why not make a change when it is not working. What can you do in 10 minutes, when the team is panicking anyway and bombing it forward. Why not make a change after 20 mins if something is not working. Is it EGO? Get Bellamy on, move Johnson to the wing, drop Suerez into the hole, for goodness sake get someone into the box, Liverpool almost never get the easy tap in or the scrappy goal.    

We have got the team to do good things, there just needs to be better strategy and training. The first coupld of games of the season were the best for me because at least we were playing systematically but creatively like perhaps it was worked on in training. I am not seeing that now. We need to work harder in training strategy like the lower teams with their set plays and set moves, rather than hoping individual brilliance will get us through.

C'mon Kenny              

Excellent analisys, ............maybe....if Latortillablanca has read this....he might have learned something, about how football is played, on this side of the world!.......Oops :-))

hmmm if only there could be a way to sort this eastcoast-westcoast style beef out... hmmm... breakdance fight?  thats it.  breakdance fight. to wildthing, the toneloc version. the only version that matters. 

Yes 'blanca. I'm starting to wonder whether he really is a double Red at all. Or just a plain old single Red masquerading that way.

kenny just coaches.  fsg has a very american/italian set up where they have a dude for the overall business strategy, a dude for the long term transfer strategy, and then coaches just coach.  kenny'll get his pick from a shortlist, but he's not the one molding the transfer strategy, nor should he, he's got plenty of other shit to be worrying about...

You may have a point, that it was Comolli's influence primarily that had us go British. He was looking at chance creation and long term team dynamics. The Carroll acquisition was at a time when Henry was new, Torres was moving to Chelski, and Henry felt he needed to make a bold statement. He felt he needed to cultivate a reputation as an owner willing to bring in quality even if he had to spend $$ to do it. He brought in Suarez, who had an unknown potential impact in the EPL, and Carroll. No one could know that Luis would be the shitz. Look at Mateja Kedzman when he was brought in to Chelski. He ripped up the dutch leagues and did nothing in the EPL. So Henry hedged his bets by bringing in both Luis and big Andy. One "world class" and one who may develop into a beast. It would be difficult to bring in recognized "world class" strikers without CL. So, we should admire that Comolli, Dalglish and Henry recognized Luis had world class abilities and moved on him. And for me, Stevie G. back and one "world class" midfielder and some minor tweaks in the setup will change everything. I'm still very optimistic for the future.

Adam will only do so much I fear, but so long as there is a good player in the hole it will work sort of.  I can't see him as a Comolli signing, lots of assists perhaps, but surely wouldn't pass other criteria.

I don't get Comolli's drive for Brits, my guess is it is what Nigel intimated/all our top foreign players leaving.

Although we didn't pay for Carroll, him and Hendo were the big money signings. Kenny wants Carroll to play the right side until Gerrard/Kuyt needs replacing.  If he develops well this season in that role, he and we'll be much the better for it and Kuyt becomes an impact sub.  

I'm sure his central play is not too bad but given Kenny isn't going to put Johnson at right wing he needs cover there.  At 21 they've got to see serious potential in him.

I'm a touch disappointed Comolli didn't come up with some class acts from overseas if I'm honest, but in terms of players for development Henderson, Coates and Carroll are hardly without significant potential.  

It might be that the world has moved on since the tottenham days and it's a lot harder/more expensive.  That might also explain our Uruguayan deal with Nacional.

Carroll is always going to divide opinion.  The price is not relevant, we never had that money in the bank.  

The deal to Abramovich for Carroll plus £15m to take Torres was reasonable trading unless there's other obvious choices to be had that would come to lfc,  but I don't think you can put £35m on the spend sheet.  

You might argue that we should have bought a more mobile player given the modern game, but that does't mean a) we won't or b) he's a failure.

I don't think he'll be an England mainstay, the Wellbecks and Sturridge types are likely to supersede him to go alongside Rooney with their mobility.  He can however learn to be pretty lethal with his qualities to be that 2nd/3rd choice England striker should those 2 develop well (Wellbeck almost certainly will).

His reputation would be pretty high right now had he put away 2 or 3 of his chances.

To be perfectly honest, I'm OK with the British acquisitions. Not sure it was actually intended that way, but that is what it is. Like you observed, they will stay here. Carroll and Hendo are 20 years old. We can't expect them to be impact players now. I'm OK with Stewie. He's created chances and should have a few assists and needs a few goals. I would prefer Spearo over Adam and have him as an impact sub. We have so many reasons to be optomistic and do have a number of top class players. We'll augment the team as needed based on performances and results. We do have wage limits, as you and I know, so there are some limitations on acquisitions. We also have 2 treasures of world football in Kenny and Clarkey, so we should be thrilled and optomistic about our prospects for the current and next few seasons.  Many of of us think we can pick the teams, formations and subs better, but..... probably not. It's easy to have "smart" answers after the results are in. I'm hoping that the intense pressure of the win now environment doesn't cause undue pressure on the team and KK. We have to play loose and confident to be able to perform at our best. This is what I see as Kenny's biggest challenge. To mitigate the external pressures of the fans and media into a relaxed confidence and emotional footballing display on the pitch.

damien doesnt get nearly the credit he deserves (im guilty of it myself even) for the suarez signing. we're all caught up arguing over the value of the downing and carroll transfers - luis suarez for 22.5m?  um. yes please.

Its failed ..because the season has ended already.Eleven games in three points off forth still in the L.C. Ended over.If only we had kept those two great midfielders AA and R M we,d be top of the league.Honestly can't believe the experts killing off LFC,s season already.

Judge at the end of Season if were still stuck in sixth fair enough critic then till the fat lady sings maybe a little patience and belief.

Thanks for the sanity bud.