Manchester United 2, Liverpool 1: A Lack of Class

How come no one is not talking about the game. Honestly at times I feel KD is killing us. just look at how we perfomed against spurs. We were simply beyonded nonetheless we didnt score. Charlie Adam and stevie should both play at the same time. Against Man u, just y did henderson start huh? huh? huh?. nkt

Over the last few years we have put up with Hicks and Gilette, Purslow, Uncle Woy, Stewart Downing and not this ridiculous persecution and xenophobia.

I for one will be glad when we can just all talk about football again!

i'm glad Suarez has issued an apology. at least all the fantasists who believe Evra  somehow caused the non-handshake will STFU now.

if i see another reference to photos 'proving' the unprovable i will scweam.

As is plainly visible to you, i am a Chelsea fan, over the years i have always enjoyed seeing Liverpool suffer, but this match is different. My condolences are with you comrades.

I would like to start my rant with the fateful handshake snub. As a Chelsea fan i know all too well what its like to see your captain have his handshake passed over by an opposition player, but for all of JT's faults, at least he has dignity and composure, opting to accept the snub over making a scene of it. I wonder how the ref didn't caution Evra right away to keep his cool. Fast forward what, a few minutes max? to Evra storming off the flank in hopes of landing a crushing tackle on an unsuspecting Suarez, but resulting in Evra up-ending and nearly crippling an unawares Rio whilst Suarez skims on by. This should of resulted in some sort of reprimand at least from Fergie, i mean Evra is supposed to be a leader and role model i thought (although if France 2010 is anything to go by, he is like poison to the captaincy). Fast forward again, and Evra sprints to celebrate in front of Suarez, classic Dick-move. Imagine if someone did that in front of Rooney, he would of attacked like the thug he truly is, and SAF would of demanded the FA punish the celebrate-or. And the FA probably would have obliged.

In conclusion, i doubt this makes you feel better, and doubt it gives any insight you didn't already possess on the game, but i just want you to know i also think Evra is a disgrace, Suarez was just in his decision to snub, United are a bunch of hypocritical d-bags, and Ferguson is probably the biggest dick of them all, pardon my language.

good words.  And while we should worry about our own....
The transgression list for Manchester United is far far worse than any other club than Liverpool's one transgression with Luis and his ban, so Fergie coming out with 'never play for the club again' etc etc was a disgrace.Mancs - Rooney, multiple red cards, stamping, kicking - now he says he wants to be England captain (and probably will be at some point)- Ferdinand, missed drugs test, gets lighter punishment than any other sport.
- diving.  take your pick.  ronaldo, nani just for starters
- Cantona.  'nuff said.
- Infidelity, Giggs' affair with sister in law (?) and various other nefarious allegations

Not a season goes by when Utd aren't disgracing English football, but the press is so up Fergie's back side it's always reported in a measured way and then quickly forgotten.

Suarez. One infringement, found upon a subjective report and he's being absolutely lynched, as is the club.  

 that is what is disgraceful.  Glad apologies have come out now, hopefully that puts it to rest.

 I would add the rape case of a girl in 5 star hotel in which both Ronaldo and Rooney were involved. The Keane case and also that weird incident when Shmeischel abused racially Wright...

This incident has become a political football. The hysteria was deliberately engineered. video evidence proves Evra withheld his hand. http://the-tap.blogspot.com/20...

Just heard that the Prime Minister is going to have a meeting about this whole situation - Seriously.

Do they really have nothing better to do?

Every politician, FA member and Media outlet will want to take a nice political bite out of Luis Suarez.

Xenophobia and politics at its absolute worse. Disgusting.

This is getting out of hand.

It got out of hand a long while ago. Absolute circus!

Ed/Noel! Does Luis wear an undershirt with built in "half gloves"? And why does he kiss the inside of his left (?) wrist when he scores? By the way I'm no fan of a matching undergarment. You either wear wear long or short sleeves. Of course I haven't had the dubious pleasure of playing football in freezing weather.

He kisses his wrist because that's where his daughter's name is tattooed.

I think it's a racist ritual celebration thing.

We are not the experts but does Kenny watch the same game we do? Downing was crap and I had forgotten he was playing till he got booked. Ok so dont jerk him off after 20 minutes which he deserved, but do so at halftime, justify it with the yellow card if need be. Jose is also being tested more often and if he doesnt get help for his left midfileder, he will continue to do so. And please anybody, when Jordan makes his first actual tackle for Liverpool, let me know so I can celebrate.

Choice of words, Vic!

Lets not get carried away by the handshake or no handshake thing. It is time for reality check....along with the fading magic of my MaCallan. Reality is the Carling Cup is as good as ours. We won't lose to Cardiff, right? Not at Wembley. If we lose, I'll check into AA myself.

FA Cup is still a good shot, I like to believe. But with the 2 Manchester cunts out. Spurs have to be the team to beat. Arsenal and Chelski will find a way to lose, which is also our own shortcoming, suddenly. The team I fear now is our own neighbouring Blues.

Finally the league. We may be only 4 points from the 4th spot but we will need all the help we can get. Chelsea seems to be disintegrating....good. Newcastle keeps surprising everyone by refusing to die down. I see Arsenal our real target to overcome. Damn, Van Persie is still playing so well. We have to beat Arsenal in our next fixture on March 3. Period. If not, we might as well look over our shoulders. Norwich is 4 points behind us. They won't catch us. But Everton is only 6 behind and riding hot ripping 6 points from Chelsea and ManC.

All that said, the old saying goes, we just have to do our own job and win games. But we have been saying that for most of the season. 

After reading what was written in the following link; http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/f...

I'm just a little perplexed at how so many people raged when Sepp Blatter suggested that things should be settled with a handshake are now raging over how a "handshake" did not resolve/reconcile matters. Yet, this supposed "handshake" snub seems to have victimised the wrong individual as supported by many images floating on the net of Evra's alleged "lowering of hand" when Suarez offered his. 

Why can't they just do away with it? Even without the backdrop of the Suarez-Evra soap opera, the whole handshake thing is just a farce really. 

I can't quite remember when Journos actually reported/talked about footie games rather than a handshake...

I'm genuinely not sure if Suarez or Evra is to blame in the handshake incident. Look at @Andy_Carrolls_Ponytail:disqus's post and picture.  

who is the real instigator of the no-handshake??

look how evra holds his hand out in each picture

Have to say this was at least partially a failure of team leadership.  It should have been understood from the beginning that Suarez was going to shake Evra's hand, no matter what.  Suarez may have been angry about what Evra did to him, but it was Kenny's job to rein that anger in and make sure that Luis represented the club appropriately.

This isn't just a fight between two men anymore; whether we like it or not, this whole sordid mess is affecting the reputation of Liverpool Football Club.  A lot of people look at us as the team that coddled a racist, and they're not all Mancs.  Now, I still believe very strongly that LFC did the right thing in backing Suarez against the spurious allegations made by Evra.  But these days, perception is reality and we have to make sure the actions of everyone associated with the club send the right message.

I love Kenny's devotion to the club and his impatience with the press, which definitely don't have LFC's interests at heart.  But I'm starting to worry that his contempt for the media, regardless of how honestly he came by it, is hurting us in the battle for public opinion.  We have to start winning that battle so that the world can see the real Liverpool, and not the ghoulish fantasy perpetuated by people like Alex Ferguson (I will NOT call that bastard Sir).

I have to say, we really missed Lucas out there today. With Gerrard being forced back to the defensive role, there was no connection from wee luis to the rest of the team. Also, thought hendo looked promising today whereas spearing was definitely off, especially after he caused rooney's second goal. He needs to stop trying the hollywood passes and play it save more, especially in the defensive third of the field.

Downing was complete shit today. I think we all hope for him to show a glim light of confidence and skill, like from what we began to see at the start of the year, but i am beginning to become more and more depressed with each of his appearances. I still think he could be a class player but he has some issues to sort out apparently and we really cant waste our time with the hopes that he will somehow figure out his form again.

As far as the king's choice in lineup i was really disappointed with his decisions. For one, to expect downing to come on a have a great game against our biggest rivals after so many games of not starting, instead of putting Bellamy out on the flanks was a huge mistake. I also thought he shouldve started the big man up top to work with suarez, seeing that he's been on form lately. i think we always expected united to score at least one and the extra help on the attack would have been nice. It was hard to watch luis try to do it all up there on his own.

As far as the off the pitch stuff goes, i think it is suarez' decision whether or not he shakes hands. As far as i saw, he showed up to play a game of football. nothing more, nothing less. Didn't even celebrate his goal, just got to business. Evra on the other hand was complete the opposite. Almost destroying his own teammate in attempt to crush suarez early on in the game. Typical united making a huge deal about every little thing and then running over to celebrate in front of suarez as if to get him to throw a punch. I think it was his personal goal all afternoon to get suarez to do something he'd regret and in my opinion, suarez did excellent to keep his cool. even looking at the handshake, i'd agree it seems as if evra lowers his hand whereas luis keeps his raised but makes no effort, waiting for evra to shake. If they had just passed eachother without evra making a huge deal of it, it would not have escalated so much.

i would agree we did not come into this game prepared or ready to fight for a win, especially in the second half. But looking back on it, both of united goals could have been easily avoided with the misheader by hendo and spearings fluke pass decision. I would have been interested to hear the reactions of the game if we'd tied it up at the end.

either way, i just wish we could all move on a focus on the next match. Forget the off the pitch nonsense and just play some good old football please. 

i am a red
and i support our squad and our manager
have faith 
YNWA

Hendo was shit too. Getting fed up with him. His not going to do anything special this season, that's for sure. Actually started wishing Adam had started and I think Adam is weak. The errors were made in the summer. Time to cut our losses now and rebuild again next summer. Kuyt, downing, Hendo, Adam, Spearing average players. Good, not good enough. Time to try out the youngsters, my opinion.

I hit on some of this in reply to Blanca's post, but I thought I'd say something separately about my take on all 'dis. 

A few of you have mentioned that QPR and Chelsea didn't shake hands because of their incident, and some of you wondered, like me, "why didn't we do the same for this match"? Some smartass know-it-all might know the answer, being something about "since the Suarez case is over, and Terry's was ongoing, blablabla England is good". But do you really think the media would allow this juicy moment to go to waste in a respectful, boring manner? No, with the handshake going ahead as planned, it was a 50/50: either they will shake hands and hip hip hurray for all humanity thus worth, or they could make a big fucking noise and get more clicks and media coverage. Either way, it's all more thrilling and interesting then having no result whatsoever. 

The supposedly thorough and professional manner in which both the Terry case and the Suarez case were handled turned out to be more scandalous and degrading to the country as a whole. But this is all a very radical look at what has happened. Let's say the FA and the media are naive and had no evil intentions behind the scandal. We can blame all the childish actions and horrendous conduct of Evra and Suarez as being examples of how deep this rivalry really is. What if this has only blown out of proportion because it has become a giant inbox for Liverpool and United fan's hate mail to each other? Part of me thinks that if this was about Suarez and a black player from a midtable club, Manchester United players would still get their twitter megaphones to say they hate Liverpool. This is why I think both club are just as guilty of letting this escalade to this magnitude. Remember when I decided to check out that Manchester United blog a couple of months back? Remember how biased every comment was about Suarez? Because they are only thinking of their own club. And we are only thinking about ours. It's the media's fault for making this a moral, heart, and character issue. It was the media's decision not to mention that Suarez was ruled by the courts as not a racist. This is hardly a fight against or for racism, let's try to keep the tears back with all these "emotions". 

Now, enough for being a neutral...well, I still think I'm being neutral, but what I'm about to say sounds nothing like a neutral. Patrice Evra. Conniving. That's the word I'd use to describe him, when you look at his role in the whole shit story. He's been in England for 6 years. He has been captain of both France and United, being a complete disgrace of a leader with the latter. He knows the rivalry of Liverpool and United. He knows the English media. There is no way he didn't know what would happen. And unless he is in complete denial, schizophrenic, delusional, or whatever, he knows what Suarez really said. He didn't call him racist terms repeatedly throughout the game, or else the courts would have found out, like how they found out Saurez said "negro". I'm not saying this is a master conspiracy against Liverpool. That would be nuts. But being on the other side of the alleged racism, he knows this could only end up in Manchester's favor. So if anyone is slightly more guilty, it's definitely Evra. And I'm a...*cough*...Newcastle fan. 

Well that's my story and I'm sticking to it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Disgusting isn't it when a player wont shake hands before a big derby game. Could insite a riot.......................

A little rich for Ferguson to come out with the comments he did over a handshake.

Cantona - Assault on fans!
Ferdinand - Drugs cheat
Rooney - Violent swearing oaf. etc, etc.

dj chutfield must be a right prick i have supported liverpool for over 30 years,and can,t understand why a scot like dalglish supports a racist idiot.you could tell there was a problem when he gets rid of all the black players bar johnson.john barnes is a hero to all us reds fans and can remember the support we gave him when he came to the club,and the way that he and all the  other black players that we supported.we all walked around with the names of black players on our and our childrens backs.96 fans died supporting this great club and dalglish more than anyone should know what us fans have gone through over the years fighting for justice.dalglish should leave and go back to scotland manage celtic and end his live drinking buckfast and take is friend with him.this is liverpool this is england 2012..       

Yeah, maybe go easy flinging "pricks" around.

Jonjo Shelvey would get jealous.

Hey hey hey. He's not a prick. No matter what our opinion, let's not turn on ourselves. 

Aww, you guysss. I didn't know you caredd! 

It's only cos Fergie, sorry the FA told us to.

Not to get into the media bullshit...but did Rio refuse Suarez's handshake befooore Suarez refused Evra's? Sadly, it makes a big difference in the story the websites are posting. 

After, according to Twitter Rio said "Bad decision on his part. After seeing what I saw, I decided not to shake his hand. I lost all respect for him."

like the drugs cheat was full of respect for him before hand.

No, after.

A lot of people are forgetting that Ferdinand didn't shake Suarez's hand either.  Now I realize this whole thing isn't between them, but why is it so different that Ferdinand doesn't shake Suarez's hand?
Second, is it really that big of a deal that Suarez didn't shake his hand?  Because the media are having a field-day with it.  They're saying, "There's no place for this in football."  It's like he racially abused Evra all over again.  Who gives a damn about shaking hands before the game.

Just to clarify something that seems to be repeating itself: just because a fan is disappointed/disgusted/annoyed/furious/sad with suarez's conduct does NOT mean he/she has "turned their back" on the player or club. 

Fair play. I think you are a 100% wrong in your opinions though. But the last thing we need is division in or fans who are the best in the world.

Didn't read it, no offence Ed but im pretending this game and all it's happenings didn't happen, it's just easier this way

I don't really know what to make of the off-the-pitch stuff. Suarez probably could have just defused the tension by just going through with it, but I have trouble faulting him for not pretending to respect someone who he thinks lied and got him suspended. Either way, Evra just comes off as a complete asshole.

But going forward on the field, I'm struggling to be optimistic. Liverpool just aren't scoring enough goals, and whereas earlier in the season the problem was not finishing chances, the issue now seems to be that they aren't even able to create them. Without Lucas, the midfield is regularly outmatched and our ineffective group of strikers isn't even a factor.

With cup competition in the next two weeks, there is some time between now and the next league game on 3 March. Hopefully some of the personnel issues can be resolved in that period before the final 13 matches of the season come in rapid succession. Finishing fourth has to still be the #1 priority and remains possible if improbable. If Liverpool can really get rolling, (like in March and April last season) then it can absolutely make up the four-point gap and move ahead of Newcastle, Arsenal, and Chelsea.

The matches month of March will tell us where the Reds really stand.

3rd - Arsenal (h) - Against a club at Anfield that are in direct competition with LFC for 4th. A must-win.

10th - Sunderland (a) - Tricky fixture against the resurgent Black Cats. Won the fixture last year and need at least a point this time around.

17th - QPR (a) - This will be rescheduled if we go through vs. Brighton, but if not then this is another match against a bottom of the table side that needs to be taken advantage of. Must-win.

24th - Wigan (h) - At home against the club at the bottom of the table and a seemingly easy victory. But Wigan has been a tough nut to crack in the past few years.

Why the uproar about Suarez not shaking Evra’s black (politically correct) hand? The FA of England on behalf of all English people condoned racism by stopping ALL handshakes in the QPR v Chelsea pre-match build-up.

WTF it was Evra who pulled his hand back as Suarez approached just a inch or two but that was enough. Suarez just keeps on moving past him with hand still out. I have watched this frame by frame. Well done to Suarez for not reacting at the time and keeping his cool. And fucking shame on all you red men who are so quick to shove him under a bus

Luis Suarez scored a goal and didn't go crazy just calmly jogged back to centre circle.

Luis Suarez did not react at all to the boos and abuse he got today.

Luis Suarez did not react to Evra's blatant provocation at the end of the match.

Yet apparently Luis Suarez is a 'disgrace' simply because he refused to shake the hand of that lying scum Evra. 

Luis Suarez is not found guilty of anything. All thats happened is that he has been a victim of the FA's politics, incompetence and xenophobia.

I'm proud of Luis Suarez for not been a hypocrite and shaking that liars hand.

I'm proud that Luis Garcia is a Liverpool players and he is a credit to the club (King Kenny's words).

 You have shown yourself to be a biased individual. I have read many of your posts. You are quick to refer to the boos and abuse Suarez received, but mentioned nothing about what your fans did to Evra. The pot is calling the kettle black.

Suarez was punished and banned for 8 games.  that matter is over. done.
truth is for one incident many people, especially fergie wants suarez lynched.

manchester utd, frequent transgressions and quickly forgotten:
rooney and his red mist cards, 
swearing into the camera, 
ferdinand drugs cheat gets shorter ban than any other sport, 
giggs affair with sister in law, 
diving -  ronaldo, 
nani take your pick, 
cantona 'nuff said, should have been prosecuted.

Not a season goes by when Utd's transgressions is a disgrace to English football.  All quickly forgotten.

Liverpool - one incident, highly subjective verdict, absolutely condemned.

Yes Evra got booed and rightly so. He also didn't react on that occasion which was good.

Was just pointing out that Suarez didn't react to the provocation!

It remains to be true that Suarez never pranced around like OJ Simpson.

Hey, that's racist! You're banned for 8 posts.

 You mean Suarez not Garcia?
Anyway I do agree with you.

Ha ha oops! that shows what a few beers can do! Still, Luis Garcia was quite a player as well!!!

Hear motherfuckin' hear. 

It's hard for me to pinpoint why I care so much. The whole saga is deeply disturbing on multiple levels. If Suarez leaves this summer for any reason, I think I'll stop following the sport altogether.

Easy for me why. This whole saga's been a fabrication of the media. If Suarez is ousted this summer, then that means writers at the Guardian, Daily Mirror and god knows whatever else have plenty of sway over our squad and transfer dealings. I think I'm with you on no longer following the sport, because if that's true what's the fucking point? Some random twatmuffin can oust any player he wants by pummeling him with enough negative columns.

Well, that sucked. Don't have much else to add except that the rest of the candidate's for fourth also shat the bed all over the place, w/ the exception of Arsenal (sort of), so I'm going to pretend this weekend never happened and that we didn't look bereft of ideas and didn't score by accident and continue to believe we'll rebound in time to make up the four points. 

Still have 13 games left, including 2nd fixtures against Chel$ki (home), Arsenal (home) and the Demba Bas. Look at the rest of our opponents: Sunderland, QPR, Wigan (home), Villa (home), Blackburn, Fulham (home), West Brom (home), Norwich and Swansea....and whenever they reschedule the derby (home).Assuming we remember how to get up for big games, that's an eminently "runnable" table - a lot of shit teams that we should put away (yes, I know...sigh). I don't doubt we have the personnel to get it done, particularly w/ Arsenal and Chel$ki forced to play in the UCL (seriously, Arsenal required a last gap winner from f'ing Henry to beat McLean and the O'Neill's). Whether the lads will pull their shit together and actually get it done is a different story. So, blind faith an optimism (while watching through the tiny gap allowed by the hands covering my face) will have to be the order of the day.Now, in an effort to catalyze the the return of blind faith and optimism, I'm going to step outside, start drinking and then throw the finished beer bottles at a picture of Evra and that purple-nosed fuckface.YNWA.

We didn't do great today clearly but remember:

- they dominated the first half and didn't score.
- we made an awful job of the second half, couldnt work out what we were trying to do other than slow the game down to negate their superior possession football.  Yet we got a goal out of it!
- very nearly came away from Old Toilet with 2 goals.  Not too shabby.

Utd are beatable.  We, in some ways more than others know that.  We didn't do that today for a host of reasons, but playing badly, if we had scored 2 goals I wouldn't have been too upset.

Appreciative of the range of comments and opinions and really glad that everyone's managed to keep it at a conversational level. Hope it can stay that way.

As for where I stand, I'm not really sure. I know it's uncomfortable, and I was embarrassed about a lot of things today, and have had a similar feeling for stretches of the past few months.

That's why I keep drinking.

Ridiculous tactical stubbornness by KK.  By the 20th minute, it looked like the game plan and player selection was off and the game was simply not winnable with that team.  He stuck to his selection as if making a change means he made a mistake.  Managers make mistakes and the great ones are the ones who admit it, not in the post-match interview, but with change and action.  

He kept the same time through the first half, through 1-0, through 2-0 and brought in players when United started time wasting, having already won the game.

Compare this to Mancini subbing off Johnson for Barry 6 minutes before half-time against Villarreal.  Changed the game and won it.  KK was playing chicken with a train.

I think looking at how we were setup with gerrard playing deep and very much not going forwards, the tactic was to hold utd back, expecting them to be very strong.

1st half worked ok.  They have dangerous players and enjoyed possession but couldn't score.

Bellars was always destined for a 2nd half entrance (knees), and probably Carroll too to create problems later in the game.  Not bad tactics I would say.

A couple of mistakes early in the 2nd half after Evra tries to cause a fracas with Skyrtel at the away dressing room and we're 2 down.

We might have disappointed in the 2nd half, truth is, our players infront of Gerrard didn't really know what to do against a pressing and closing Utd, a bit shell shocked from the goals (and some of them mediocre quality for now).

Yet, we could easily have walked away from Old Toilet with 2 goals.  Against utd, on a day when we were NEVER in control of the game.  Whatever the outcome, if you can get two goals there, it's not that bad.

We're a lot more dangerous than we think, and while dangerous, Utd have problems.  

Their danger and precision football masks the fact that they are very very beatable as they've found out this season.

Hey everyone! Shame we still don't have 11 top quality players, eh? Because I would have loved to have won today. Oh well, that's our team and we support them win or lose. Today we were beaten by a better side.

Still hoping for a Wembley win, some passion and fight in the run-in, and more midfielders in the summer. Hope springs eternal, right?

the often play very well and look dominant, but they don't always beat us.  Today we could have snatched a draw for all their dominance, but the truth was we didn't have enough players that were good enough infront of Gerrard.  

boy did he look impotent playing deep.

I wasn't going to say anything simply because of my deep depression and expressing those thoughts would only work to make me even more depressed... but after reading some honestly shocking comments on here, I feel I must speak my mind. Ahem...
Speaking respectfully, yet still from the heart... this is all a gigantic load of horseshit and I am thoroughly stunned how many LFC fans, let alone readers of this fine blog, have turned on our wee Luis. I don't believe for a second that Evra was ever offended by a word as harmless as "negro." This was from the start and has always been nothing but gamesmanship, the only goal of which was to throw Suarez off his game, LFC off their game and make our club the subject of a media witch hunt. I don't think even Fergie and Evra expected an 8-match ban, a ridiculously heavy-handed and unreasonable punishment, but fine. LFC took it like men and moved on quietly. 

Now having served his ban and finally being able to do his job again, he's made to go through his handshaking idiocy that the FA could and really should have done away with for the sake of keeping this match civil. But they didn't. Suarez, as a free adult male, decided he didn't want to shake Evra's hand, someone Suarez believes lied and got him punished unfairly. Ferdinand then chose not to shake Suarez's hand. Guess who's getting more attention? Why does any of this fucking matter? Who fucking cares who shaked who's hand? Are we here to play football or "shaky handy"? That in itself may have been gamesmanship seeing how Evra nearly amputated his teammate's leg with that stupid, dangerous tackle that made Rio faceplant vertically into the pitch. 

Suarez excels at gamesmanship, pulling on shirts, hair and marking people out of the game mentally as much as physically. His grit, his drive and his creativity is to be greatly admired by the fans of the club he represents, not shunned or turned on because the talking heads at Sky tell them to. 

Finally the quote that turned out to be the straw that broke my back... Blanca, I think well of you and appreciate what you add to the comments section of this blog. But "compadre" would have been offensive? Really? Should we start handing out bans for players calling each other "compadre" now? Footballers swear at each other ALL the time. Hell, schoolboys swear at each other all the time. Last week, Skrtel pointed at the ref and shouted "FUCKING CUNT!" It's inconsequential, who fucking cares??? Yes, racism has no role in society and yes, had he insulted Evra based on the colour of his skin I wouldn't nearly be as butthurt as I am now. What I don't buy into is that ANY mention of someone's race is inherently derogatory. What the fuck, when did this happen? "Danny Glover is a black man." Am I supposed to go to jail for saying that? This is all so obviously bullshit with no goal other than to bring LFC down during a period of sustained upswing after lows SO low they hadn't been seen in over 50 years. Please, for the love of everything Red on this planet, do NOT as Redmen buy into it! Support our players and support our manager. THAT is what Redmen do.

*breathes*

I'm with you here undoubtably, or in the case of Liverpool and Suarez v the FA & ManU... to the end.

everything I've been wanting to say. thanks for putting it so well.

Agree completely. Now Fergie wants Suarez banned forever from Liverpool. Can't believe the effect that man has on the media and british football fraternity. Obviously, he has been trying to pull Suarez down since he emerged as the brightest spot in the premiership. Can't believe LFC fans are buying his crap! How come the FA allowed for Terry to escape the inconvenience of a handshake and Suarez can't? And does Evra have to act so dramatically? Last week after conning the ref to penalize Sturridge he actually went to Sturridge for a hanshake. Of course he shrugged him off. It is frankly insincere and vile for anybody to expect a handshake of Evra from Suarez. In fact, stupid.

"How come the FA allowed for Terry to escape the inconvenience of a handshake and Suarez can't?"

That's actually a really good question. 

Lets be clear, my point with the compadre example was that within the context of that particular situation, whichever word suarez chose to call evra in that moment would have carried a negative connotation.  He was being intentionally antagonistic.  that he chose to go with 'negrito' in a moment when he wanted to ruffle evra's feathers was a regrettable mistake.  Though i'd agree it was only mild and perhaps unintentional, it was still a racially charged comment meant to demean his opponent. suarez is a public figure. he is a role model.  he has to know the situation around him and act accordingly.  his actions and failure to apologize for them are unacceptable.

We are all prone to mistakes.  i have myself stepped in it on this very blog.  i used the term "twat" in reference to a fellow blogger's son, because his son was a man utd fan.  Now, when i used the term, I meant it as a jibe, a joke, but definitely in a negative context.  I was rightfully reprimanded by my fellow bloggers, and in the sober light of retrospect I took my medicine and apologized immediately.  I meant no harm, and yet i had caused it.  There is no difference between that and suarez's situation. 

Even if suarez had spoken in english and had used the 'n' word, if he had immediately come out, put his hands up and apologized, it would have demonstrated his character - that he made a mistake, he owned it and now we can all move on.  The fact that he is clinging to this idea that he is completely blameless is childish.  I would even be willing to say that whether or not he offended evra is beside the point.  He offended millions of people around the world, and even if he felt he was wrongly accused, it was very easy for him to stand up, take the blame and set an example of how to be a bigger, better man.

Suarez's actions today have done nothing but confirm suspicions that he is ignorant and hot-headed enough to make some derogatory, even racist, comment in the heat of the moment.  That 'shaky handy' that you make reference to has a purpose, and it's a purpose that goes beyond sport, beyond winning and losing.  it's about character, about humanity and decency and respect.  That handshake represents something that's bigger than a Fucking football match.  And Suarez's shaking of that hand is not about suarez so much as its about everyone tied to the glory and tradition that is Liverpool.  I dont give a shit what he thinks of evra, or who was right and who was wrong, you shake that fucking hand because kids are watching and learning.  you shake that fucking hand because you represent an entire city out there and millions around the world.  you shake that hand precisely for something BIGGER than yourself.  Sport is great because it is an allegory for life.  it inspires. it gives us greatness to aspire to.  it gives us examples to live by.  Jesse Owens at the Olympics.  Jackie Robinson suiting up in the majors.  Danika Patrick breaking into Indy/Nascar.  Magic playing in a game after coming out with HIV.  This is the backdrop that the "handy shaky" occurs in.  That is what its about.

I don't care about people's theories are regarding the FA, Man U, ferguson, evra, and whomever else.  All that is beside the point.   suarez himself admitted to saying something that a man in his position has a responsibility not to say.  and even if he does, he has a responsibility to own up to it and make amends.  I am half Chileno.  I have grown up with a mother known to her friends and family as "negra" because she tans dark.  There is a difference between an affectionate nickname and a heat of the moment phrase that is meant to antagonize an opponent.  THAT is what i mean about the 'compadre' example.  its about context, and i'd thank you to consider it.

You sound like you work for the FA there contradicting yourself!

'Though i'd agree it was only mild and perhaps unintentional, it was still a racially charged comment meant to demean his opponent.'

I ask you, how can something perhaps unintentional be meant to demean an opponent?

Surely you either mean it and it's intentional, or you don't and it isn't?

Perhaps you should read the report again and not let the media lead you................................

the fact that it was racist could have been unintentional, while the sentiment was meant to demean...

ridicule me and focus on whatever mistakes you feel i am making in a one off posting - it doesn't change the fact that there is a perspective that is not getting through to the majority of liverpool supporters because they are sitting in this overprotective bubble that disallows them from looking at this situation objectively.

im not here to discuss what evra or terry or the fa should and should not of done.  im saying that suarez's actions months ago were compounded by his actions yesterday which were in turn compounded by dalglish's steadfast approval of anything wee luis does, no matter how in the wrong he may be.  This is not good enough.

but obviously none of you are seeing this... its like trying to debate politics with a tea bagger.  so enjoy your bubble, i hope it treats you well.

I don't really have any interest in recycling Suarez incident from months ago. It's been done to death, I really feel he did nothinhg wrong and The FA saw an opportunity to play politics.

With regards to the handshake. As John Barnes says if the players don't respect each other why shake?

I respect Luis Suarez for having the courage of his convictions and not bowing now to all this media, FA generated garbage.

As an aside. Our opinions obviously differ, but I apologise if you felt I was demeaning you and no offence is intended. Liverpool fans should stick together.

That said, you are dead wrong on this one!!!!    ;) 

Sorry, but this is utter tripe. Rubbish. I am a black man. If you call me Nigger, there I said it, you are fucking ignorant and I fucking ignore you and fucking move on. I don't make a fucking mess of the whole thing crying like a spoilt brat especially not when it was said in the heat of the moment on a football pitch. Now can we leave Suarez the fuck alone? Children are watching my ass! Evra and the entire hypocritical, RACIST British society are the real disgrace here. Fuck. 

how evra should or should not have reacted to begin with is a valid discussion that should take place, but its a different point to the "tripe" and "rubbish" that i have written above.

If you choose to believe Luis' story, then this didn't offend millions around the world, or even one bitter left back. If you choose to believe Evra though... Well, then our perspective on this is so far apart that there's no wonder we don't agree.

 i'm not 'believing' anyone's 'story'.  i base my whole point on what suarez STATED himself. 

Simple question.

Would you shake the hand of a man who made disgusting comments about a family member? Who lied about you? Who created a shit storm which had most of the country and all of the media calling you a racist?

Would you shake the hand of this man?

I wouldn't and I'm proud that Luis Suarez had the balls not to as well. 

see, i would say that in context shaking that man's hand and turning the other cheek takes more balls than not doing so.  not doing so is the easy "i know you are but what i am" way to go about this. 

you obviously can't see this, so its no point trying to convince you otherwise, but it would be nice to hear someone at least acknowledge there are other ways to view his holy suarez's actions throughout all this.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one!

I am well aware that Suarez is no angel and sometimes he does go over the top with his actions.

However, If you want a sensible view on it have a look at John Barnes comments.

Well, no. First off, negro, not negrito, which, according to the language experts, used in the manner Suarez stated, could not be considered inflammatory. Secondly, it was used conciliatory, not to rile up or ruffle feathers, which is fairly important.

THESE are his statements. They don't match up with those in your post above. The discrepancy then is likely caused by your 'belief'.

You're right about one thing though: this is about something bigger than football; it's about standing up for what you believe to be true and right even when the world is pushing and pushing for you to cave in to your principles.

 just stop, man.  im not calling suarez the boogey man, im pointing out a mistake he made and suggesting he needs to own up to it.  if you can't recognize the inflammatory nature of what suarez did in both of these instances then you are simply apologizing for his mistakes, as are a disturbing amount of people on this site.

I feel ya, bro. When you look at it from a neutral perspective, things would have gone much smoother if Suarez would have been the bigger man and apologized. 

But the root of this problem might not have anything to do with Suarez or Evra, but the very fact that this is Liverpool vs. Manchester United: a rivalry that divides many fans and pundits. Because of that, hardly anyone is looking at it from a neutral perspective, and all these arguments are sprouting up because both groups are looking past their own faults. Liverpool fans refusing to let down their guard and accept defeat, United fans refusing to realize Evra's contradictions and the FA's unjust ruling. If this was Suarez vs. Demba Ba, imagine the difference in media magnitude.

Don't criticize Blanca's input, calling it rubbish; it might not line up 100% with how you see the situation, but try to take something out of it. Obviously he cares about Liverpool and wants to see things work out in our favor.

I agree, he could have made the whole situation go away by bending over. I admire the fact that he didn't and support his right to do so. It's a personality thing more than a club thing to me.
Really, if being the 'bigger man' equals tolerating injustice due to outside pressure, then I wouldn't mind being called small.

Also hard to imagine a neutral perspective to me, due to the fact that the information that circulates among those who aren't actively seeking out alternative outlets is so deeply flawed.

I haven't called anything rubbish either. In fact, I haven't assigned an adjective to his comments at all. 'Misguided' could perhaps be appropriate. We can disagree, I don't mind that, but I will point out flaws in logic or lack of basis in fact where I see it.

Thanks.

Cheers. All is good. 

I miss the days when we could just make drunk jokes and not have to deal with big boy issues. 

 Aaaaaah! Drunken bliss! Those were the days!

No.

He's already apologised for his mistake. The judgement and witch hunt aren't based on what he says he did though, and what he's apologised for, but on Evra's story.

Given the ambiguity of the phrase used, if Suarez says it wasn't meant as inflammatory, then I choose to believe that. 

There was nothing inflammatory about Wayne Bridge skipping over Terry's hand. I don't see why Suarez should be held to a different standard.

right, well what do you want me to say, dude? you won?  this is not about terry, this is not a pissing contest, and you dont have to be a linguistics expert to know that suarez's conduct months ago, yesterday and dalglish's comments afterwards are all an embarassment to this club.

so, you're in the majority of supporters who dont want to open their eyes to this because suarez scores goals and kenny won trophies.  congratulations.

I'd like you to argue your case intelligently.

Thanks for putting a bunch of words in my mouth and assigning me opinions I don't have for reasons I don't believe.

This forum should be too good for that strawman crap.

Everything i've wanted to say expressed a hell of a lot more eloquently than I could.

Absolutely fantastic post.

here here, great post......although kd really needs to knock suarez off his pedestal for a quick lecturing and he needs to figure out quickly how to choose the right starting squad for every match....why in god's name he didn't start bellams and suarez up top for this one is beyond me.

Well, I for one, am glad you chose to speak. Excellent post.

quite right DJ.  

Let's not go with the monumental BS that the handshake is what it's all about.  Ignore the cretins in the media and the haters.

Luis did what he felt was right and is certainly no worse than a Rooney or a Cantona or a few others.  If his aim was to wind Evra up I think that's fuckin' awesome and it worked.

If you think he was badly done over by the mind numbingly incompetent FA then stick up for him.  I almost wish Evra had caught him in that tackle just to see him get sent off but glad Luis is so skilful that he outfoxes them.

Suarez nearly equalised for us, don't forget that.  Given all the control Utd display they were certainly not gone and over the horizon. 

Surprisingly we didn't deal well with being pressed as hard as they did.

 We don't have the players for it yet and a deep Gerrard tends to lead to impotence.

Still, nearly came away from Old Toilet having scored 2 goals.  Lots of depression today, but it's not quite as bad as that.

At the end of last season I thought everything will be so much better. We'll strengthen the squad in the summer and definitely get into top 4 as the form under Kenny was just so good. We'd perfect the pass and move style, Suarez would be unbelievable and Carroll would start scoring. I also thought all the drama surrounding the club (Torres, Woy, relegation zone, Hicks and Gillett, Kenny coming back) was at its height, that this season would be quiet when it comes to headlines. Now here I am, watching all the furore around the Suarez and Evra saga and the performances on the field and thinking "What the fuck..."

So did we all, but we didn't strengthen the squad, just upset the balance of a great core by benching and selling our good players. 

I keep wondering how much better we might be had we made absolutely no changes to last Spring's squad.

Why didn't he start with Maxi or Bellamy?? Goodness gracious!!! And to prevent the Suarez situation, start him from the bench to replace Maxi in the second if the latter had been selected. I am not against Dalglish. I still remember him from 1990 when i was a kid idolizing him and the whole of Liverpool but honestly it's time for him to be moved upstairs and another proven, tactically-aware coach given the kind of money he was given to revamp this squad. No, not the soulless, classless egotist called Maureen aka Mourinho. Never.

To put things in perspective, the media keeps telling me that we're better off this campaign than last, and yet in this late stage of the season, we're only 4 points clear of Norwich. If there has been significant improvement, I can't see it.

Also 4 points off Champions League. That's some perspective. Why you'd pick Norwich for a comparison, I've no idea.

Because they're directly below us in the table.

We're better off b/c we have seven more points than at this point last year, is why they keep saying that. And good for the canaries. 

And why does that matter? Norwich' place in the table has no direct bearing on whether or not we're improving. They're an independent variable. CL places are a constant. Much better measure of progress.

I'm sure you can grasp the implication here. We spent loads of money in the transfer market, and now, in the home stretch of the season (which is to say that easily enough matches have been played to substantiate any conclusions) we sit 4 points above a team that is newly promoted.  Semantics aside, there is something very significant and relevant about that reality. 

Watch the run-in.  We may not be world beaters, but we are no way a terrible team.

Maturity in a team takes time.  We have a few players that are either not developed enough yet or not playing to potential yet.

We almost came away from Old Toilet today with 2 goals.  

Hardly a disgrace given all their possession - which they couldn't score from in the first half.

We have more points than last season and are closer to a CL spot. That's improvement, no?

Whether it's 'good enough' is a good debate. We should have this discussion.

Bringing Norwich into it as a measure of OUR progress is ridiculous. Compared to them, EVERY SIDE in the league has had a worse season than last. Your implication is flawed and useless. I pointed this out.