Liverpool 0, Swansea 0: Tomorrow’s Hangover Starts Today

My wisdom teeth are impacted and I have several cavities and I am waiting to have surgery. My doctor prescribed Vicodin for the pain and it works very well as long as I continue taking it every 6 hours. Chronicpainkillers.com blog says that this drug has side effects and I am concerned. I can't tell when the ways wears off, because my jaw starts to throb.

Just for perspective, Spurs played today. Out of the "Top Six," we were the only ones not to win. I'm not for doom and gloom mongering nor have I run out of patience with Kenny. I just think he really needs to re-think his starting XI and try something new. Suarez cannot continue to be our only spark in offence. We need Bellamy and Maxi starting more games.. that is a fact. Maybe try Agger higher up the pitch, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. Kenny's too smart a guy to not know something needs to change, so come on! Let's do it.

Of late I've been kinda dreaming of how Suarez would've been the prefect foil for Torres...man that woulda been a demon partnership. That dream is pretty much a waking nightmare now for all seeing as Carroll can't seem to hit a cow's ass with a banjo and Torres...well we know he's not shite but he seems to be suffering the same affliction as our current incumbent of the hallowed No 9 shirt. That's got me to thinking...how about a swap?

Carroll is more suited to Chelsea's style of play in that big No9 kinda way (seeing as Drogba's on his last legs) and AvB clearly doesn't know how to get the best out of his star striker. Same problem with KK really...Newcastle must be laughing their tits off as much as we are about Torres at Chelsea.

Makes sense to me...Torres + Suarez = awesome. Anyone else coming over all nudgy at the thought? 

Just me then.

Just like the departure of Meireles in this previous window, the Torres transfer and the Carroll arrival was a huge letdown that occurred for me in the last few hours of the window. But Torres is gone and we would never hear the end of it if he was to come back. AVB does know how to get the best out of him, but he's choosing not to make everyone else change their ways for one player when they do fine without him. Modric didn't come in, so he's without his Joao Moutinho that he had back at Porto. Ramires is stepping up the plate, as we've seen with the slight reoccurrence of Torres' goals.   

...and I promise I'm a Liverpool fan, who's just missing AVB back at my other love, Porto. 

It's not just you, but Torres fantasies are like a sin whose name should not be spoken...

I'm with you. I have dreamed of it in weak moments but slapped myself awake, believing it to be a great sin... Carroll has shown he can pass-and-move it with Suarez in brief glimpses.. He just needs to bed the fuck in already. 

Also, I like but slightly chuckle in pain at Ryan's comment.. it's true, AvB isn't forcing the whole team to adapt to and play around one player.. But I think it would be unfair to claim The King has tried to force square-peg Andy into round-hole Liverpool. More like he was slightly off-centre with his hammering and realigned only for brief moments against City last year and West Brom this year. The Torres and Meireles exits did take the sheen off their respective transfer windows, but I'll be thrilled if we can make Suarez-Carroll really work and terrorize opposition more and posts and bears less. 

I honestly can't wait for Adam to be benched and for Spearo to be given a run out in the league already, or come on as sub in 60-70th minute for Henderson. Give Stewie a few days off to get his shit together and let Maxi and Bellamy/Kuyt take the flanks. Minor changes, but I see full-scale rewards. Suarez cannot be our only hope up front. Fuck dat shit.

It's a Top 7 right now...really a top 2, next 5, and bottom 13.

Kenny is the greatest and there's no better motivator nor face for our club. We just might have to wait another season or three to get the right players... :(

maybe we should talk about the shape of the team. the 442 (or the asymetric 433) obviously doesn't work...

There has been a lot of talk about formations and personnel on this site previously. The summary of my take:

 - We need 2 holding MFs always protecting the back 4, like last year
 - Spearing should be next to Lucas doing this
 - Adam is not good off the ball, should only play in a 3-man central midfield
 - 4-2-3-1 is our best formation against "lesser" teams
 - 3-5-2 or 4-5-1 against "top" teams
 - Henderson should only ever play in the middle (not RW)
 - Carroll is not ready to start (he's our 4th striker behind Luis, Kuyt, Bellers)
 - Johnson should always have covering MF or not played at FB, rather winger
 - team needs (desperately): proper RW
 - team needs (to improve): holding MF, CB to replace Carra, speedy striker & winger

Unfortunately, Kenny's dream lineup is neither technically very good (unable to play their way out of small spaces) nor fast (in play speed as well as foot speed). Until we can buy better players for the spine of the team, the best option is to pack the center of the park, narrow wingers, and use the fullbacks to get to the byline. 

Oh, and Carroll on the bench is very important. Learning on the job is only acceptable if we are ok being a mid-table team!!

i agree with quite a lot of this take, except bellamy's never been a CF, so it's a bit harsh to list andy behind 39 on that depth chart.  the thing that most jumps out at me is why haven't we tried a traditional 433, yet?  any combination of spearing, hendo and lucas would surely be enough to support adam in his old blackpool role, and a forward three of andy and two from kuyt, maxi, bellers, suarez, downing just seems like such a tasty morsal, i can hardly believe we haven't given it a solitary go... you do have an astute tactical perspective, be interesting to hear your take on why/why not... also, we've not afforded adam the luxury of being that out an out offensive player, why not?  surely he couldn't do any worse than he did on saturday...

I know I'm not one to talk about this, I've only been a fan for 5-6 years - given my age - and from my past comments have let out my anger at not having immediate success for this new season.  
Lately I've been really trying to think about why Dalglish is so insistent on Charlie Adam starting (among other things.)  I put myself in his position in terms of squad and club issues.  
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When I look around I see an Italian who has no intention of having a future at this club, a money hungry portuguese aging mid and a injury struck aging legend.  Well damn, looks like  those are no goes, who else do I have? Spearing, Jonjo.......oh and Adam.  Jonjo is no where near ready first XI and Spearo looks like he just doesn't fit into our plans (or he just wanted some more minutes, let us not forget that before the end of the summer transfer window, he had a ton of speculation over his future and if the wolves would sign him or not.)  Okay, so that leaves us with Charlie Adam.  Mr. Henry approached me earlier and he says he understands that change takes time and given that all our investments are for the greater good of the squad and the future I might as well give this team a go.  With no one else look to be set in midfield, I must give that opening to Adam and Lucas.  Henderson definitely looks better going forward so that's where I'll put him.
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We all want our club to succeed, but why do we all of a sudden lose our patience when we finally have a good opportunity for the future.  All I have to do is say Roy's first name to let you know just where the club was a year ago and what the direction of our club looked like.  Down, down baby down and no future in the squad, no good tactics and little hope of youth blossoming.  With Torres ready to go and Morgan not even close to the right age we're left with the thought of only N'gog.  I don't even need to talk about what could of been if he was in place of Andy Carroll for our future striker.
With all these change in tactics, personnel and just an overall new look to the club, 10 games in just seems a bit to early to lose our wits over what the club is doing.  Kenny knows what's going on, whether you want to believe he understands this new modern football or not I would like you to take a second out of your day and put yourself in his position with all the stress from fans, owner and results alike.  I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm okay if we don't win every game this year.  He's forcing a much needed change to this club.  If we barely make it to 4th if that by the end of the year it's ok.  I understand that even that goal we set  is hard given how the club is doing now.  I feel that if we give this squad time, Kenny some patience and a look at what our future holds that maybe in 2 years time we will look like Chelsea did a few years back before they look so composed as a top tier club; a team that looks like they could win everything.
We should all stop and look at what the club could be if we didn't have good owners.  If we had Roman Abra, Kenny and 2 other managers would have been dismissed, our squad would be torn apart and we would look like we have a very slim chance at good looking future.  Instead, we have Mr. Henry and Kenny (the latter being a man that everyone has faith in and all the players look up to), a pair that looks set to start a reign, that in given time makes Liverpool the best football club in the world again.  
So as we sit here and debate over frustration, may I be the one to call for a little optimism and positivity.

I understand the passion behind what you're saying. But aren't we simply asking for a formation change/lineup change? You're right, Kenny is a smart guy. And in all honesty, Steve Clarke might know a bit more about the modern game than Kenny. But I don't think we are fooling anyone by acting like swapping Henderson for Kuyt and playing Spearing instead of Adam is some sort of large endeavor that takes 20 games to accomplish. And hell, it doesn't even have to be Spearing. If he insists on using Henderson, I would much rather see him in the middle than Charlie Adam, especially with what I saw of him against Manchester United (Stevie dropped back and made a three man midfield, and we had some sexy possession going on). 

Sure, optimism is great. In fact, that's what Kenny's all about! So when you suggest Kenny's mindset is "With no one else look to be set in midfield, I must give that opening to Adam and Lucas", you're not reading him correctly.

What Kenny saw last year in Adam was a player who had courage, balls, passion...and a sweet left peg. A guy who dragged a team of cheap players up with leadership and an aggressive, attacking attitude that charmed the fans and became the talk of the EPL. And from Scotland to boot! That's everything Kenny loves -- attack, goals, excitement, passion, leadership -- and that's what he wanted to buy in Charile Adam. There was none of this "with no one else, I have to..." stuff. 

However, Kenny has shown that he is willing to let his heart rule over his mind. He has bought players who are good people, hard workers (for the most part), and fit the profile of putting the club first. But he's overrated Charlie. Despite playing in a 3-man MF for Blackpool, for some reason Kenny thinks he is athletic, industrious and a good enough tackler to play in a 4-4-2, which is flat wrong.

There's nothing wrong with being positive, but reality is another thing entirely. Sometimes criticism helps a manager gain his wits, not lose them!

I see where you're coming from, I admire your patience. But in my opinion there are some (=my) problems with that 'positive' view:

- Real life logic doesn't apply to professional football clubs. Just because we buy a bunch of talented 20yr old players doesn't mean we're worldbeaters when those guys hit their supposed "prime". Football is ever evolving, players, coaches, owners coming in, leaving, somebody getting injured and so on.

- Even if the whole "building for the future" thing works out some day with Hendo winning the ballon d'or or something, I want to enjoy watching LFC right now. I don't care if we win the Champions league in 2020, I don't want to see pathetic performances like yesterday, period.

Imagine Mr. Mourinho decides he wants to play Suarez and Higuain upfront to finally win back the league from Barca. You think Suarez cares about Hendo or Carrol needing time to gel? You think he prefers playing League cup games at Brighton on Wednesday if he can play in worldwide televised champs league games at Milan or Munich?

Red Army, i think we are twins as you just spoke my exact thoughts.

;-)

And I understand that, but we're not Manc. We can't just buy crazy money hungry players.  What would you do with the team that would change it ever so drastically?  Maxi instead of Downing, spearing instead of Adam?  Not big of a change.  No offense, but not to long ago Maxi didn't look much of anything.  So he had a good closing season playing against teams thats position was pretty much settled in the table, I doubt he would do much to change what happens on the field right now.  Bellamy's 32, even I think it's too much to make a him a week in week out starter in front of Kuyt and Carroll.
If you want to see Liverpool's play change to enjoyable every week I would suggest buying millions in stock, then buying millions in personnel.  I think for recruiting and squad choice we did the best with what we had.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for getting a "Mata" or "Hazard," but I think they'd rather go to Chelsea or Real before they come here.  

You're right, we have no choice. Doesn't matter if we play Maxi or Downing. Hopefully Stevie can take us for another ride before he rides off into the sunset.
I just don't think we did very well with recruiting and building that squad, or else we perhaps would have a choice?!

Gotta be realistic about who we are as LFC. We're not exactly operating on the cheap. We're not Villa or Fulham or Swansea for that matter. We spend the same amount of crazy money on transfers and wages to buy those 'money hungry players' like every other 'top team'

And I forgot to mention that the players that Kenny and Comolli brought in were players that were club loyal and in it for the long run, no matter the immediate results.  Note why Kenny was so willing to give Aquaman away.
@4d6c17fe7b8e21181ca6ecc7d13e2124:disqus Thanks, I'm totally with that.  Spearo seems like he deserves to have another go after all the good work he's put in this year, not just this season.  

totally agree man... that said, adam should be afforded a well earned rest, plug hendo or spearing next to lucas and allow kuyt to return to his mantel of undroppable. 

Lucas-Adam-Henderson adds up to a decent central midfield. It's just that you have to drop Carroll to do it... Kenny needs to pick his poison. He can't play all of his pets at once.

This would be my solution as well. My frustration at a few results doesn't go much beyond creating a midfield dynamism we need and better finishing. Stevie G. will help, of course, and Spearo, Maxi and Kuyt should be given their chance to have a greater impact. I have already accepted that 4th is going to be a fight. As Barry Switzer liked to say, "sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you". Let's enjoy the journey.

ah, buddy, i'm a niner fan, switzer quotes won't get you anywhere with me! ;)

One thing I thought was notable yesterday was our struggle to get the ball off Swansea yesterday. The team didn't seem compact at all and seemed to have too much space in between the lines, had me thinking that a stronger team would definitely have made us pay. 

Though Swansea sat pretty deep (being an away team) they pressed a lot more effectively than us and our attack (though of course with a greater expectation to win) was definitely put under more pressure. 

I thought in defence we ended up sitting to deep despite the lack of Carragher and thus a lot of times when we won the ball back Suarez and Carroll were left isolated upfront, resulting in Skrtel and even Agger occasionally launching the ball up towards the two of them and back into Swansea possession. Thoughts anyone? 

Indeed. Playing a 4-4-2 with such slow players means there's tons of space to run through.  Downing has a bit of pace and Suarez is lightning, but Carroll, Henderson, Adam, Lucas are all slow even when in position. 

Lucas is slow but is very smart and usually in good position -- a lot like Scott Parker in Tottenham's 4-4-2. However, Parker has Modric next to him, while Lucas has Charlie Adam! It's ridiculous.

i mean, we sit deep with our cbs and lucas.  thats just what we do.  what usually happens though is our front four presses without the ball, and for all the good moments that shouldve led to goals yesterday, we definitely were not up for any running off the ball, offensively or defensively.  henderson is the only one i remember actually giving that a go in the first have, but then he had then he had that degen-esque error on the right of defense that almost led to the swansee opener, and i guess it pissed the king off...

Pressing is an effort made by the entire team and not simply by the front four. If the front four get up the pitch to pressure the other team and the defence continues to sit a big gap is opened for the opposing team's strikers and midfielders to run into. If you look at Barca who are a very good pressing side, a high line is vital to their pressing being effective. Under Rafa in 08-09 you would never see us sitting that deep in games. 

be that as it may, our cbs sit deep, and we've had our best games when our front four have been up for that off the ball running...

I think it is about time to start questioning Kenny's ability as modern day coach.

1) We are playing the same players over and over again expecting different results. You know how Einstein called that, right?

2) Are there any tactics at all? perhaps "Go out and play" or "Don't forget to pass and move" or most likely "Give the ball to No. 7"

3) Kenny, can you spell "SUBSTITUTION" ? I have never seen a manager so unwilling to change his team or his plan. In a game like yesterday, I expect the manager to scramble for subs and change of strategy, to try everything to get us a win.. and not to stand there with this boyish disappointed face looking on..

It's not about being a modern-day coach. Kenny has the same attitude as Arsene Wenger, but he's trying it with players that are slow and not very good technically. Remember Arsenal against us with Frimpong?? It's just not the same when the players are not up to standard.

Kenny's vision is failing, but he will prove his mettle by how he adapts. That's the great hope, anyway. :)

the game yest'dy was our 10th of the season - so it calls for an evaluation of our season thus far... if kenny makes the same mistakes he's made in our first 10 games i'll agree with every word u said in that post redarmy

rly perplexing choices on the subs yesserday, no doubt.  improvement needed across the board, but id say kenny's repeated his mistakes in the early going with much more regularity than any one player has repeated theirs...

Hard times, Sad times. When I see Carroll, I feel pain. Its not about wasted money, or his poor ball control, slow pace, ordinary finishing etcetera. Its about the sad mood, loss of pleasure i get while watching him play, the post-match low energy levels he causes me. Added to him creating hopeless and helpless feelings towards my dearest LFC. My Shrink tells me its depression. Carroll to me is like a "negative like event", comparable to loss of a loved on or severe bodily injury. Looking back at the likes of "Billy Liddle", "Kenny Dalglish","Peter Beadsley","Ian Rush","Robbie Fowler" and Fernando Torres, you really can't help but think the costliest english player in a million years feels like crap! You begin to wonder whether we are actually progressing with that panic purchase. Enough said about that Carroll thing, I actually think Kenny is trying to justify his buys even when detrimental to the team.   

I feel you. Slow, technically poor players are not exactly "pass and move" or "the Liverpool way", are they...

Actually Lucas gave the ball away a lot yesterday, but it hurts more when Carroll does it.

disagree.  other than suarez in the 2nd half, carroll in the first half was doing more than anyone in a red shirt to win that game. he puts that chance away, we're hailing his coming into form after a rough start to the season.  subbing him off was one of the "huh?" moments for me...

Don't worry. You will be paid with a goal every 6 or 7 matches. Talking the entire season and not just a half in match.

see now ur jus hatin...

Can someone do an article about why Carroll was so awesome at Newcastle during the first half of last season? (unless there's one already that I'm not aware of, which I doubt as I am the most loyal Liverpool Offside reader going around.)
Just want to know what Carroll was all about, cuz at the moment, you just don't see him starting in any of Chelsea, Man Utd/Citeh. But I'm certain that the hype over Carroll was quite rightly justified, unless it was just hype. 

... p.s. Don't get me wrong, I ain't having a go at Carroll, but is he less of a player than what he was at Newcastle?

He's the same player. At Newcastle he played with better wingers and was able to get the ball on his left foot and head in the box, and he hasn't managed that at Liverpool much. He also got to play more, which means more chances overall. 

Oh, and at Newcastle nobody ever asked him to form a "partnership" with anyone, much less a world-class South American. Nor did anyone scrutinize him too closely, nor was there pressure to win every single game. He wasn't the most expensive anything (except maybe his bar tab).

agreed.  plus, the step up to liverpool is rly underrated i think.  performances on the pitch aside, all these signings do seem mentally tough enough to have taken that step in their stride, which is encouraging for the long term. perhaps hendo seems a bit shook at times. 

In Carroll, we cannot even put our mouth where our money is! 

I agree with a lot that's being said but want to make some points as well.

On the subject of Carroll, besides missing that sitter, I thought he played decently well today and is showing signs of great improvement. Is he a 35 mil pound player? No. Should he be starting every game? Probably not. But his work ethic has improved, and his aerial ability is as good as ever. I actually thought other players failed to support him when he tried heading some of those balls across the box.

Not so much here, but I've seen a lot of hate on Henderson. I do believe he can become a class midfielder, but not right winger. He's got some pace, but he's not the type of player to be taking defenders on and beating them. I thought when he's been put in the center he has been much more effective and in that role can become a great attacking midfielder.

It seems like everyone is hating on Adam here, but honestly from watching today's game, I believe it's Lucas that should not be starting, along with possibly Adam. He's a worker yes, but he just isn't good enough. There is no real threat to his offensive game, and as a defensive mid he does not command where the ball and spray it around. He's also not very quick and multiple times got turned around while on defense. Adam I thought played some good passes and had a few nice over-the-top balls, but what really gets me angry is his laziness, as you could see by the yellow card he picked up, going into a stupid challenge. An Adam/Lucas two man midfield is not effective at all and has no dynamism. 

Yep, as a veteran Lucas hater, I can easily agree with you about Lucas' speed. He doesn't have the class of Mascherano or Alonso, and he lacks foot speed. Still, thru hard work and experience he has become a solid ballwinner, takes up great positions, hustles always, and in the big games he has the coolness and quality to play the ball simply and effectively out of danger. A real asset.

The offensive part of the game doesn't matter much, although we just recently saw him exchange a lovely one-two in the box to set up a sitter Suarez missed and his pass was delightful to Suarez before Carroll's goal at West Brom. He's the least of our worries right now.

Good comments Josh.  Hard to disagree except Lucas.

I think Adam has almost no versatility to his game, he has 1 position and only goes forwards.  That means Hendo has been pushed out to the right - partly as a Kuyt understudy, which as you say he doesn't do great at.

I'm sure it'll be very good for his education and development over the course of a season, but until then, he drifts inside and exposes his fullback and isn't hugely effective.  

When he went off, Adam didn't compensate in midfield which is why Swansea over ran us in the second half, giving them a platform they should never have had.  
Hendo wasn't brilliant, but gave us the numbers in midfield when Swansea were sitting back and defending.

Lucas understands shape and role, but he can't do it all by himself.  He's not a fast player, but his reading of the game has really come on leaps and bounds.  He has to have support from the midfield which he doesn't get from Adam.  The wide players have to protect the fullbacks and hence you have a very resilient formation.

Carroll did what was asked of him but wasn't supported in his knock downs - the team were static when he challenged, even though he was only ever going to knock down a ball.  He should have scored - I'm getting bored saying that.

The general wisdom is to not replace so many players as we have this summer - partly because of last summer's transfer debacle.  Some would say we are paying the price of bedding in so many new players at once.  Others will point to a midfield with NO pace, or Downing not doing enough/not taking on defenders.

But in reality, we should have won every game other than Spurs.  So how do we explain that with so much 'against us'?

There is a benefit to the 3 disappointing draws.  It must concentrate the coaching on the failures in the team, and that must be good.  Games like West Brom give us a false sense of security, given how bad Woy's team were.

This team's time is during the run in to the end of the season, the last 10 games.  That can be good enough to get a top 4 place and reflects the time a team needs to sort itself out.  However, they have to keep their moral high to get better, and that could be tricky if the coaches don't do their jobs.

ya i can dig it - are we gonna see hendo-lucas paried in mid?  talk about midfield dynamism...  carroll, even having missed that sitter and much like everyone else on the field other than 26, doesnt rly draw out any of my ire... if the players need to improve their finishing, well then the king sure as shit needs to improve his game mgmt...

You dare to critizice Lucas??? Shame on you!!

Daniel Sturridge anyone???

not a fan. too raw, and he's comin up on 23-24, wayyyy to raw for that age at that position.  of all the out of position forwards chelsea has, id take 'hasnt gotta' kalou - at least that boy passes.

Okay, so I wanted to wait for a bit before commenting on the match--as immediately after the result, I was about this close to going on a full-fledged rant on Twitter.

I don't want to be kneejerk about anything, and I certainly do not want to be ranting and raving about how all our summer signings are shit and we should have gone for fill-in-the-blank. That, I think, is really unproductive, because the squad we've got is the squad we've got, and until January, we're going to have to deal with that. (I see a lot of people speculating that LFC will buy again in January, honestly, I'd be surprised if that happened--not displeased, just surprised.)

That being said--Adam, Downing, and Henderson should not be starting right now. I'm not trying to slam any of them--Henderson's young, Adam is...well, he's pretty much been what we knew he was going to be, and Downing, let us all be honest, has ben the recipient of some fairly tough luck because clearly the crossbar and the posts have a vendetta against him. But. But. I find it hard to believe that Spearing, Maxi, and Bellamy do not deserve the chance to start in a league match. Based on what they've been contributing RIGHT NOW, none of those guys have earned the right to be locked-on starters.

I would add more, but right now, I'm just not all that up for it. Sorry.

totally fair.  wouldnt be mad at seeing any of the three you mention getting a start.  that said, i thought downing actually improved quite a bit yesterday, especially in the first half, and im still confused as to why hendo was hauled off instead of adam...

I understand that we're only 10 games into the season and there's still a lot of time for things to improve, but right now what we're doing is not working.  Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson, Stewart Downing and Andy Carroll are all good players, and they may all have a great future with the club, but none of them is a locked-in starter based on their performances up to this point.  It's time to start considering making some changes in the starting 11, and I agree with those who've said Maxi, Kuyt, and Bellamy deserve more playing time.  We have nothing to lose by giving them some games to play with Suarez and see what results they produce.  

Liverpool started this season by saying a Champions League spot was the goal they were playing for, and I believe that's still a possibility.  There's no need to panic.  But Kenny needs to realize that however enamored he is of our new signings, they are not getting the job done at the moment, and continuing to play them in the determined hope that the squad will gel and start performing better is a recipe for falling further and further back in the race for fourth.  Great managers are able to make changes when their original gameplan isn't working.  I think it's time for Kenny to bring in Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy and Spearing and make Henderson, Carroll, Downing, and Adam into impact subs.

for me, adam's the type of player that needs to get into the rythm of a ball game, not sure how effective he'd be as an impact sub.  not sure bout ur read on carroll - he's been in as good of form as anyone the past couple.

You know what? At about 80 min I caught myself rooting for Underdog-Swansea to win this game. They would have deserved it, very good game, very well organized. Any chance we get that guy Rodgers as our next coach? 

Today was disappointing.  The defence played well, and I would really like to see Daniel Agger join the attack more.  He has an intensity about him, his runs into the box are something we need more of now that Meireles is gone and he should be rewarded.  Glen Johnson continues to quietly remind people that he is an excellent asset going forward if given the right directive and opportunity.  Jose Enrique, while being our most consistent summer signing, has been a little too aggressive recently.  He and Stewart Downing rarely seem on the same page.  We made many summer signings to fill holes in the squad.  We had no true winger so we bought Stewart Downing.  But we tend to overload his side of the pitch and he has little room to be effective a lot of the time.  Perhaps playing him on the right and allowing him to try linking up with Glen Johnson is worth a shot.  Charlie Adam is a decent player, but has yet to show anything worthy of making him a nailed on starter for Liverpool Football Club.  He runs around but isn't particularly active.  He has played a few nice passes but does not help Lucas control possesion and by extension, the game.  I like Jordan Henderson but he doesn't have the pace to operate effectively when he is alone on the right.  He would do better centrally, either as Lucas Leiva's partner or further up.  Worringly, it is starting to look like Andy Carroll is the key to our season.  When he plays well and is involved, Liverpool look better.  He seemed to get down on himself after the miss today, and that is not a good sign.  The whole squad seemed out of ideas by the 35th minute and seemed to tire as a result.  A good part of that should be on the manager.  Our substitutions also need a lot of work.  Charlie Adam should not be untouchable just because of his set piece delivery, which has been average recently.  Jordan Henderson and Jay Spearing both deserve to be considered for that spot.  Maxi should have played more than thirteen minutes in the Premier League by now.  It would be nice to see Maxi, Bellamy and Suarez on the pitch at the same time more often.  They performed well together at Brighton and deserve a shot in a league match.  It is still fairly early in the season and things may turn around but Spurs, Arsenal and even Newcastle could out some serious space between us as we have Manchester City, Stamford Bridge and then Craven Cottage before the schedule gets favorable again.
  It may not happen in January but we badly need a #10 to move with the ball and create. Also, Andy Carroll needs to cut his hair or use a headband. He has lost ponytail privileges for the time being.

Thomas, some excellent points. I know a number of people were calling for Yann M'Vila to accompany Lucas in the heart of the midfield, but I wonder if a regualr rotation of Spearing and Adam would work better, and of course, be much cheaper.

It certainly seems that available, quality CDMs are thin on the ground. Scouring throuhg the various European teams with players who may be available doesn't seem to lead to any obvious January aquisitions, so I hope that Kenny shows some more variety in central midfield pairings, geared to each individual opponent. (Unless, of course, Mascherano becomes fed up with playing centre back!) 

I think the length of this post sums up just how we played, lack of any sort of care about this game.  To be honest, the only thing we have going forward in our offense is Suarez.  He obviously wasn't at his best.  The defense was good as was lucas, but Charlie Adam? I mean, I know the man is good at set pieces, but shouldn't make him an automatic starter.  Doesn't contribute to anything.  His careless yellow shows how his defensive game is going.  So with no one to support our off form Suarez, I think it's pretty easy to see why the game ended the way it did.  Clean sheet for good D, no goals for the offense.  I honestly felt bored through a majority of the match until the Carroll sub.  We look so much better without him on the field, whether we're playing Carroll kickball or trying to use him in pass and move.  The ball moves so much better and I'd rather see countless missed chances and maybe one luckily goal then a full boring game trying to get the ball on Andy's head.  Sorry if this is a rant, I just want the to see the team succeed.

Indirectly, you're right---typically I'm much less prone to be swayed by offers to actually go do something right after a match, but found it very easy today. I think I feel very similarly to your last line, in that today I felt extremely frustrated, maybe even more so than after the loss at Spurs. 

Nothing a whiskey egg nog won't cure, mind you.

You've got to outpass a well organised team.  So your passing has to be very good and/or it has to be done at pace.  2nd half, they decided to have a go, and our midfield crumbled.  Adam just couldn't hold it together with Lucas.

We don't have a quick pass and move midfield.  Hendo is trying quick, first time balls, but they're not working yet.  
Adam is just not mobile enough and Lucas can't do it all on his own.

And of course, we can't finish.  There weren't as many chances as other games but there were certainly enough to win the game.

If our whole game is faster then it might give us a result.

And Adam isn't going to be getting any faster, I am afraid. It's hard to imagine that us losers on this blog understand that Adam plays best in a 3 man midfield, and Steve Clarke doesn't. And I'm also terrified that Holloway is making Shelvey play like Charlie Adam did over at Blackpool. 

Cows arse and Banjo is one phrase that springs to mind about this team. If we're frustrated and annoyed, imagine what Dalglish must be going through; a player who in his prime could have hit the net blindfolded, facing the wrong way and wearing earphones blasting out Metallica at full volume.

I'll sing it in harmony with you.

Fabio for CM! I know he's fragile, and likely on his last stint with the club. But, what does Adam bring that Fabio doesn't. We've seen him slot in there effortlessly in the Rafa-reign. Aren't we aiming for pass-n-move football, not whack-n-wait?

Aurelio also played there last Spring when we totally kicked ass. I'm for this notion. 

wow. r we back to that already? i thought the transfer revolution meant we were passed the days where we had to rely on fabio aurelio and his half a knee...

You're absolutely right. The pain today is nothing compared to what might be coming up. It's awful to think where this team might be at the end of the month.

I'm going with 'blancas suggestion. I'm starting with the Vicodin and scotch and I'm not gonna to stop until the pain goes away.Two weeks, three, two months, whatever.

Meanwhile, Manchester United have a developed a new strategy in football: sell your players to other clubs so they can score own goals and win games. 

Some thoughts. I remember reading somewhere(possibly here?) that more players were taking long shots at Manchester United's De Gea because they all saw him blunder that Dzeko goal in the Community Shield. They thought he was inexperienced so if they just peppered him in the game, a few would go through. Turns out that De Gea really just needed to settle in and he's actually incredibly good for his age. I think the reverse is happening for Liverpool. the Goalkeepers heard about our inability to finish off our chances, and they come into games against Liverpool mentally prepared to shut us out. It takes the pressure off of them because they only have to stop Suarez.

What does Andy Carroll have to do to get some momentum with his form? Sadly he is unable to be relied on. He takes the garbage out against Citeh, and then contributes nothing against Hotspurs. A top class finisher would be nice, but not necessary. I think Kuyt is the answer to all of this. Kuyt should rightfully be super pissed off about being relegated to the bench by Henderson/Carroll. I've mentioned before that players should be rocks, and the better they do the heavier they become to move. Kuyt made himself a boulder last season. Hopefully the halftime substitute is a sign. But I thought other Kuyt-moments from Dalglish meant the same thing soo. bleh. 

Carroll and Henderson to the bench, Kuyt and Craig/Maxi to the field. No, I didn't say Carroll and Henderson shipped out to Palermo and Ajax, who were my friendly customers in FIFA 12. Minus the Flanagan inclusion, did we see the same exact starting lineup from Sunderland, the very first game of the season? We were complaining about how that was working back then, and not much seems to have improved. What does it take to get relegated to the bench in this team? A groin infection? It seemed pretty damn easy to see Kuyt go to the bench, why not Adam? Downing? I don't understand why our treasured youth and honored veterans have to be the unhappy ones. 

I don't want anyone axed, anyone's head on a platter, I don't want anyone shipped off to France for this. I think we can all agree that the lineup needs a good shaking up. Carroll, Adam, Henderson, and Downing need to have their place in the squad not guaranteed. And they can't argue that they weren't given the opportunity. Enrique took the opportunity, Suarez took the opportunity, Bellamy has taken his very few opportunities when given. Spearing, Maxi, Kuyt, and Bellamy deserve more playing time than those that are. 

A lineup I would like to see given a shot against Manchester City: 

---------Reina-------------
Jnson--Skrtel-Agger-Enriq
------Lucas---Spearn------
Kuyt-----Stevie------Bellam
-----------Suarez-----------

Bench: Doni, Henderson, Adam, Kelly, Carra, Maxi, Carroll

I'm with you on Kuyt.  And not just as a Hendo replacement on the wing, but as a full-fledged center forward like what he was back in Holland.  We have no problems getting the ball into dangerous areas, but what we really need is a reliable goal-poacher to convert dangerous balls into goals - someone in the mould of Robbie Fowler, Teddy Sheringham, Alan Shearer.  The kind where if you let them touch the ball in the six-yard box, it's a goal.  

I was hoping Carroll would be that player for us, but evidently he's not.  Or at least he hasn't been ever since he joined the club.  But we do have one, if not two natural goal-poachers in our midst - Dirk Kuyt and Craig Bellamy.  Except they're never used upfront, instead always as pseudo wide players or in a slightly withdrawn role.  I want to see Kuyt out there, in front of Suarez, permanently hovering around the six-yard box, just waiting for that Downing cross, or the Suarez flick, or even just looking for the keeper or a defender to slip up or give him half a yard to divert the ball in with the most opportunistic of touches that even Sheringham or Solksjaer would be proud of.  Goodness knows he's more than capable of doing the job.

Ya I forgot to mention the striker role more for Kuyt. I was implying that a little by referring to his replacement as Henderson/Carroll. We all were talking about goal poacher, and Kuyt just screams out to me. He has put in some masterful displays as a 2 yard poker. 

This might be hyping him up too much, but since I love him dearly, I'll say it. Kuyt has this natural ability that he must have gotten at birth, where he is never in the way in the box. Having a sneaky ass Kuyt roaming around Suarez to pick up loose scraps is a game tactic in itself. What game was it recently where someone played a high pass to Kuyt, and he knew someone was behind him, so he ducked, and pseudo-assisted the goal? that's evidence right there. 

I'm with you about Kuyt. And he still managed to make it down the other
end to defend as well - the man's a machine. Love to see him given a
proper chance in that forward role.

Recorded the delayed telecast this arvo - now not so sure I can be bothered watching us struggle 0-0 against Swansea. Just too bleckkk.

I like the idea, but I wonder, didn't Rafa priginally try Kuyt as a striker and found that Dirk didn't translate as a pure striker in the Premier League? This might be a job for the Jan window.

I do agree that at the moment Andy Carroll is not the player for this role. Maybe Carroll needs to work on his link play so that he can lie deeper a la true number 10, and then rotate in and out of the forward slot?

I still love this club, though. 

Didn't Kuyt play striker in our win against the Mancs last season at Anfield? 

True. However, the issue seems to be with having a reliable finisher. Granted, the modern striker is more of an interchangeable link/forward/creative player, more like Suarez, a role which Kuyt can fulfill pretty well, but this does not seem to be the same as the more out and out goal scorer whic Red2Death was calling for (apologies if I've completely missed the point.)

yup

Yes, limiting Kuyt to have to build up when Suarez is clearly better is frustrating.  

Obviously Kenny prefers the players he brought in, he plays all of 'em. Everybody else, good (meireles,maxi,etc.) or bad phazed out. Stop dreaming about lineups, this is politics.

I am the last person to start hating on the king, he is a top-class motivator and man manager. But the question has to be asked whether strategically he is capable of identifying the best side. I think even he recognizes that starting Hendo today was a mistake... but it would have been too much to pull off Adam AND Downing at half time also to cover the other mistakes! Definitely not panicking, and just trying to be reasonable here, but this is the type of game where some sort of guile from the midfield is necessary in order to boss the game like a top side should. Credit to Swansea who played really well, but this game should make it clear that Adam simply isn't the solution for a team looking to finish top-four- squad player at best!

That said, I wouldn't be griping if Carroll put his chance away ;)

Kenny is sticking with the new guys to get them bedded in, and it does make sense.  There's only the Spurs game we couldn't have won.

The benefit will come in the season run in if they have the balls to keep their chins up till then.However, it's tough to not see the strongest side fielded with others being brought on later.

Downing is playing himself into an impact substitute position.

Carroll is the shitest signing for Liverpool F.C ever what was Kenny thinking??? If he's worth 35 million, what is Messi worth? He is proper shite no skill - no pace - no finish - no touch 100% pure garbage

I agree we need to sell him and why buy henderson Adam,and the worse out of a bad bunch downing ?what a waste of money someone at liverpool as fucked up big time comolli or kenny????

Silliness.

Agreed. Calm down, gents. They're all class. As Noel, Ed, and more sane sections of the fan base have noted, it's not fair to carroll to view him through only the 35 mil rubric. The boy will settle; Hendo is a kid; and they all deserve a run of more than 10 games before a verdict is rendered. I agree Adam may not be good enough to be penciled in every game. I think Kenny hoped Adam would be danny murphy redux, but he appears to lack that yeoman gene. It seems scott parker was the workmanlike player we should've bought, but that wasn't readily apparent when the purchases were made (and may change by the season's halfway mark). 

Against these lesser teams (and I refuse to believe Swansea, Norwich, et al. are not lesser teams), perhaps starting with Maxi and some of the bench players would relax the ranks. It looks to me like the team is quick to lose its cool when they don't score early on, tightening up and pressing where taking a step back and resetting is the proper move. 

Of course, as I write this I'm figuring out where I can buy a replacement for the tv remote, which met an untimely demise against the far wall ealier today.

some interesting takes re: the high strung nature of the squad... coaching issue, again.

Yes calm down, but let's not go calling all our Summer signings class... We've now drawn to Norwich, Swansea and Sunderland, and been beaten by Stoke after a lot of money has been spent. All of those teams we should be beating. To be fair to Carroll he has improved but he'll never be what we need or want up top, regardless of price tags. There's bound to be other strikers in the world who are more capable of forming a partnership with Suarez than he is, with better ball control and a better finish. There's a chance that he'll develop into the player that the British media hyped him up to be, but then again, there's a chance that he'll be like every other English player who gets the same attention and before long people will start realising he's actually no good.

Charlie Adam is supposed to be in the peak of his career, but his performances thus far wouldn't suggest so. If we're honest, he's not the the answer in central midfield either and we would have said so had it not been for the fact that it was Kenny Dalglish (really Damien Commolli) who signed him. If we're talking about a long term partnership with Lucas in central midfield then Henderson could well be the answer, as he can actually control the ball, make a pass and has the physical requirements to last a full 90 minutes (unlike Adam). But even he's not ready yet. Yet he starts week in, week out.

And that brings us to Downing. He's capable of much better than he's producing as of late — We saw how good he could be at the start of the season — but since then it's been below par. Regardless of price tags (although, it was another unnecessary £20 mill) we should be expecting much better of him than we've seen, especially when you take into account that he's replacing a player who scored goals for fun last season and created them like it was nothing too. Perhaps too, his signing demonstrates just how out of touch Dalglish is with modern football (please don't shoot me!) as no real successful side uses an out and out winger who whips in crosses for a big target man, as Noel quite rightly pointed a few weeks ago).

If we're being really honest, our signings have not been class, and not at all what we were hoping for. Dalglish said that we'd only bring in players if they were better than what we currently have, but when you think of how the attacking quartet of Maxi, Suarez, Kuyt and Meireles literally tore opposition defences apart, you wonder if we really have upgraded at all.

Just sayin..

I agree with calming down, but we really need to be critical about what players were available and which ones we bought...particularly Charlie Adam. West Ham were being relegated as well, and most saw Scott Parker way more likely to leave West Ham than Charlie Adam was to leave Blackpool. He's older, yes, but it's not like Charlie Adam was bought with the future in mind, and if he was, then God help us all. Parker has been playing one-half of a two-man midfield for a decade, whereas Charlie Adam played in a three-man. He's not as attacking as Charlie Adam, that's the only thing Adam has on him. Bottomline, that is just ONE of the options we could have purchased instead of Adam. 

I'm ready to be tarred and feathered. But I wish we had never bought Adam and just went with Spearing instead, in competition with Henderson for the spot. Ahh. got that off my chest. 

Dickwad the man tells the truth! what a load of crap!

That bear got in the way again today, im really starting to hate him...

Swansea, Sunderlad, Norwich, Man Utd...we need a top class goal-scorer.

I figure even an average one would do just fine.  I mean, Bobby Zamora could have put those chances away.  Peter Crouch would be our leading scorer by now.  Jermaine Beckford... John Carew... nevermind...

John we need half a team mate comolli as bought some shit players