Luis Suarez Charged by the FA, Club Responds

I think there are two sides to this. If it is true that he has used the word 'negrito', then it could have been said from a non-racial context. Especially, if it is used that way in his native country, Uruguay.

However, Suarez should know that he is playing in the English Premier League, an international stage for international player. Also, he must have well known that the word N***** is something that must be avoided in the international limelight so he is at fault in that sense.

that point about 'negrito' being an idiosyncratic term... nah.  sorry mate.  i'm half chileno.  chile and urugay are about as close as it gets culturally.  If my class mate's nickname is 'negro' and i've been calling him that for years, then its one thing.  If I roll up on some stranger and because of his darker complexion or african american heritage call him 'negro', thats racist.  considering suarez was already jawing back and forth with evra, i dont think we can consider his tone as jovial, plus i dont think suarez and evra are familiar at all. 

dfds

Loads of people are arguing that the word used isn't derogatory in Uruguay, which I completely understand but for me, the argument that this was an innocuous use of the word isn't very convincing. Suarez wasn't trying to be Evra's buddy, nor was he trying to placate him. I think in light of the circumstances we can safely conclude that this was one opponent needling another. Unfortunately for Suarez he (one could argue) unwittingly selected a controversial word, one open to racist interpretations.

One of my colleagues is Venezuelan and I tried to ask him if the word negrito is offensive in his country, ofcourse acknowledging that they are two different countries and therefore may not be interpreted the same way. He confirms it is the same in most South American nations and that the word is usually used as a term of endearment but upon arrival in the UK he (my colleague) quickly realized that unless he was talking to someone he knows or someone who is also from South America, the use of this term would get him into trouble. Suarez does not have a relationship with Evra nor is Evra from South America. Now if this term is used as regularly as in South America as a lot of you say (which my colleague confirms) surely Suarez must have said it to a teammate whether at Ajax or Liverpool and surely somebody would have let him know that this is wrong.

I sincerely doubt that he was trying to be racist, but what he intended to do and what he ended up doing are two entirely different matters, and the former does not absolve him of blame for the latter. In the law this is known as the principle of 'transferred malice'- Intend one action, but cause another. Still at fault because the act was intentionally done.

In England we drive on the left, in the US they drive on the right. If I go to the US and cause an accident by driving on the left against traffic I can't argue that I did not intend to, or that "that's how we drive back in the UK." This is my central point, Suarez should have known better.

With that in mind, I cannot see how the FA can possibly clear him of wrongdoing. As for Terry (Yes I'm a Chelsea supporter), if the FA (or the police) can disprove Terry's version of events (by securing and viewing footage of the whole conversation from an angle that isn't half-blocked by Cole's head) then I'll be the first to call for maximum punishment. 

Whatever happens LFC may need to plan on how to operate without Suarez for awhile, unless he is a rare individual who can no let such an ordeal not affect his performances. The public was against him before and it's going to be even more hostile now. Worst case scenario he is found guilty and faces a lengthy ban (8+ if a 2003 precedence is used). Best case is that he is found innocent, but that could take awhile.  

How he does on the weekend will be interesting. If LFC is backing him completely they will have to let him play, but it maybe be obvious right away if he is not as his best. Of course, if he is the villain the media have made him out to be, he should thrive under a chorus of hateful boo's. 

All the arguments here seem valid. One problem I have with this whole thing is how can this be proved? If it wasn't caught on camera unless the FA have video evidence that no one else in the world has, how can either side be proved?! I might be biased when I say this but what annoys me most about this is that you can prove Suarez did it with evidence but you can't prove that Evra is lying. Because even if there's no evidence found that Suarez did abuse Evra, it does not automatically mean that Evra is a liar because you can't really prove that he lied. So Suarez is pretty much in shit regardless of what happens.

Until everything is finalised and proven though, I'm going to support Suarez because in this case I believe in innocence until proven guilty. If he is judged to be in the wrong, regardless of how great a player he is for Liverpool, he needs to be punished for what he did. I just hope this isn't a case of higher ups needing to set an example for the rest of the population.

So we really didn't get any further in knowing the truth, absolutely fantastic. Just what I wanted to hear! This is an outrage.

hard to believe this hasn't be settled by now...with the amount of cameras, angles and on-filed microphones, not a shred of evidence has been hinted at besides the claims from Evra and the media shuck and jive show Fergie is putting on...

put this to bed.

#SMEARSUAREZ

Okay, I'm a bit reluctant to wade in this with what's clearly going to be a bunch of unpopular opinions, but here goes--

Nobody knows anything for sure, that much is obvious. I would hope that everyone can agree that if Suarez did racially abuse Evra, he deserves to be banned. I would also sincerely hope that Liverpool FC would have already thoroughly questioned him on this manner before backing him, because if he's found guilty after the club and the manager have already gone on the record as declaring him totally innocent, that is going to look very bad for the club. Period.

Second, whining about how John Terry hasn't been charged by the FA is pointless. John Terry's already being investigated by the POLICE, and the FA are not going to make their own conclusions until the police investigation is complete, understandably so. (If they DID, they could be seen as trying to unfairly infringe upon or influence the police investigation.) You can question why it took six weeks for the FA to get to this point, but the Suarez-Evra case is not like the Terry-Ferdinand case, and comparing them isn't actually all that helpful. If you want to complain about the differing media narratives, go ahead. Personally, I think Terry's gotten more flack for this than people are willing to admit, but that's just my opinion.

Third, if this IS a case of cultural idiosyncracies (which we don't actually know either, Suarez's statement was exceedingly vague, just like everything else about this wretched case) then Liverpool, as a club, has screwed up majorly in how they've handled this. Their stance has been consistently that Suarez has been totally innocent of all the charges, and in my opinion, that's the ONLY way that their request for Evra to be punished in the case of an innocent/not guilty verdict is remotely okay. (Honestly, I don't think it's okay even in that instance, because it sets up a really bad precedent.) One of the things that reassured me (and a lot of fans, I think) was that LFC were SO unwavering in their support, I assumed they'd been careful to check whether this was a language/culture issue. If they DIDN'T check, then it's wildly irresponsible to go forth in the media and insist on Suarez's total innocence. And if Suarez lied about that to the club and to Dalglish, then we've got an even bigger problem.

I want to be clear here. I am not making any conclusions about Suarez's guilt or innocence. I find the total lack of video evidence so far to be surprising. But honestly, I think the issue of racism in football (or in society) is too important to just dismiss this as a United/media-led conspiracy against Liverpool Football Club. By all means, believe Suarez is innocent until proven guilty, but the way some people have responded to these chargse (not just on this blog, but in the fanbase generally) has been very uncomfortable for me to witness.

100% good points. 

huge fault goes to the FA for not taking decisive action one way or another.  if this case has so much grey area, why add gas to the fire by dragging its feet through all this bureaucracy.  suarez is a racist, he needs to be made an example of and heavily reprimanded. if he's innocent, his name needs to be cleared beyond a reasonable doubt.  at this point, even if he comes out 'innocent' from the hearing, the damage has been done to his reputation.

my gut feeling, I won't lie, is that in the heat of the moment he spit out some nasty language that just about borders on racist bigotry, but perhaps not full on card carrying KKK type stuff. he's already said he called evra 'something'. it just feels like el duende crossed the line on this one - he should be held accountable. 

Wise words as per usual mardia. We all want Luis and LFC to emerge from this with their reputations and dignity intact, even if the little Uruguayan's own statement will always leave a grey area for those who want to see one with regard to the intent behind his words. Some things go WAY beyond tribalism and even beyond our passion for LFC and its players. Conspiracies about manc-led media campaigns and the comparisons with the Terry/Ferdinand situation are unhelpful and allow some people (not the more fair-minded types one gets 'round these parts) to disguise their own unsavoury attitudes to racism by hiding behind their hatred for a detested rival.

Appreciated, believe me. I appreciate that old Shankly quote as much as the next football fan, but there are some things that are more important than football, and combating racism is one of them. It's a shame when the vocal, ignorant minority start outshouting the far more reasoned thoughts of most fans, and my concern is that's starting to happen with this situation.

The fact that it is Liverpool vs. United and the accuser is Evra, who is unpopular (to put it mildly) with us just adds to the vitriol of some mindless fans. And I really am so disappointed when I see claims like "I don't care if he's racist (which actually hasn't been proven), I'll support him anyways!" or stuff about Evra lying etc.

Yes, yes, yes to all of this.

There are some issues that supersede club loyalty every time, and racism in any form is unquestionably one of them. This isn't about Liverpool vs. Man United, or what Evra's Man United teammates call him, or whether Suarez is being treated more or less fairly by the FA than John Terry; it's about something much more important, and that's being a decent human being who recognizes that racism is wrong. (As a corollary, this is also not about calling for an Evra witch-hunt if Suarez is not found guilty. The last thing anyone needs is to make players more afraid to speak publicly about being targets of racism.)

There's a great post over on the Run of Play about hyperpartisanship--basically, supporters who are so blinded by dedication to their club that they overlook everything else of relevance. (link here: http://www.runofplay.com/2011/... I think that's what is happening with some LFC fans right now. Suarez is a great player and could do amazing things for LFC--but that's not the point. Racism is racism, no matter which crest is on the front of your jersey, and racism in any form is unacceptable. And that's not to say he's guilty, but as mardia said, the reactions of many LFC fans have been less than admirable, to say the least.

The link isn't working :/

http://www.runofplay.com/2011/...

I had read and really enjoyed that runofplay article and the calm articulacy of its author. It highlights the importance of thought and reflection on the idea of language and intent unfiltered by one's allegiances. That's pretty yoda if you ask this, admittedly occasionally "hyperpartisan" Redman.

I'm cosigning all of this. I love this club, I love being part of its worldwide fanbase, but some things have to take precedence. Racism is one of them. And I'm glad you linked that article, because I think the argument in it is really pertinent to what's happening right now, and to football in general.

Nice.  Balanced.  Objective.

Thanks, that's good to hear.

soooo.... the FA made the bold decision to look into making a decision upon review... wow.  and i thot government work was bureaucratic...

Yay, time for legalese! 

It's important to note that he wasn't actually charged with racist comments, just abusive language. That suggests the FA weren't willing to hang their hats on a more serious charge with the obvious lack of actual evidence. This is also suggested by the pervasive use of 'alleged' in the statement.

In my opinion, it seems like this is mostly down to Whiskey Nose turning the thumbscrews on someone at the FA and the FA trying their best to appease him while also trying not to set a precedent on charging people based on a complete lack of evidence. 

Of course, they could end up finding Suarez guilty based on absolutely no evidence too.

Fully agree with you Joel the FA just jump to whatever whiskey nose says its been this way for a long time, if there is a rule in the book he dosnt like he just gets it changed by the FA. adao you remember how the FA went on about players showing aggression to to refs that rule as you full well know did not apply to whisky nose team. Do you also remember when he would not speak to the bbc as he was obliged to once again he just ignored the FA and they did nothing. Oh yes he is behind the Evra allegations. The FA are whiskey noses poodles

Fair enough.  At least the FA's actually doing something about it.

Would be nice to see some evidence at some point though.  Multiple cameras, microphones, officials, thousands of people watching, videocams, camera-phones... must have caught by someone?  Come on, at least one of those ten times.  Anyone?  

Anyway, I think actual evidence would just be a nice bonus for us Liverpool fans, if it exists.  Suarez was already tried months ago by the media and general public and found guilty of being a racist, buck-toothed, diving, handballing, fake-card-waving baddie.  Shame on him.  Send him to his room and give little Patrice an award for being brave enough to report that horrible bully.

its easy to ignore the John Terry stuff but lets not forget that Evra has made these allegations against Chelsea before and they were not dealt with. I still belive Fergie (Mr FA ) is behind the allegation being made in the first place

Sort of ignoring the John Terry stuff for now...not sure what the FA's actually doing in that regard, but very easy to jump to conclusions. Which in the end might prove to be entirely accurate, but this whole debacle's made me quite tired of conjecture and mind-reading.

So, FA charge Suarez after a lengthy wait and TV camera search. John Terry's case was very much all there to see on tv for everyone to see, will he be charged? No, coz he is English and England captain. We wait.

Typical FA. Suarez is been painted as guilty until proven innocent.

If and when Evra's claim is once again proven false. Then Evra should be banned.

All loyalty aside, there's 0 chance Evra gets in trouble. The FA can't have a stance of punishing people who blow the whistle on racism, as it would deter future claims of racism from being brought to light.

Thank you. This is the exact reason I was very uncomfortable with the idea of Liverpool asking for Evra to be punished if Suarez was found not guilty--it sets an appalling precedent, and with Sepp Blatter undermining the actual fight against racism in football at every turn, the last thing we need as fans who love the sport is to see these problems get WORSE.

But don't you see? False accusations make a mockery of the fight against racism.

Nobody wants racism anywhere in society, but Evra has lied about this previously and has done so again.

I am proud of Liverpool and the stance that has been taken defending our innocent player.

False accusations are awful, yes. But so is setting up a culture where black players (or any players that are minorities) are afraid to speak out against racism because if they don't have enough evidence to prove their claims--and let's not forget, actually PROVING racism is rather difficult--they run the risk of being banned/fined themselves. Actually proving Patrice Evra deliberately lied about his claims would be nearly impossible.

But the whole "Evra lying about racism" thing I've seen floating around the fanbase is, I think, kind of overstated. He didn't accuse Finnan, and he didn't directly accuse that Chelsea groundsman either, it was United staff that did it. Was it still a shady moment? Yes. Does it prove he's lying now? Absolutely not.

How would it be setting a culture where players are afraid to speak out?

I ask the question. What's to stop any player in any team making false allegations if there is no penalty for making those false accusations?

Patrice Evra is causing a far bigger problem in the fight against racism with his lies.

First, we don't KNOW Evra is lying. We can believe that he's lying, we can look at the lack of video evidence as something with which to back up our belief, but we do not actually know that he is lying. Furthermore, PROVING that someone racially abused you is not the easiest thing in the world. A lot of times, it does come down to exactly what we're seeing here--a case of he said, he said. And if a player thinks that if he doesn't have enough rock-solid evidence to be believed, he's not only going to be called a liar, he's going to be banned and/or fined, thereby damaging his career--I could see players choosing to stay quiet rather than take that risk.

Second, I think you're grossly overstating the LIKELIHOOD that players are constantly making false accusations. Accusing someone of racism is hardly a walk in the park. Just ask Anton Ferdinand, who's received death threats and is getting constant racial abuse tweeted to him online. You think he's having fun right now? To be honest, I don't believe false accusations are the problem in the fight against racism. It's automatically believing a player's lying about racism that's a bigger issue.

Fair point. We don't know that Evra is lying. But based on previous false statements from Evra, based on the fact that there has been no evidence whatsoever produced that corroborates what he claims from the thousands of cameras that covered the game, I think it's fair to say that the overwhelming probability is that Evra is making this up. Again.

The Anton Ferdinand claim is a different matter. (Judge each case on it's own merits.) Most of us have seen the videos of what Terry said and it is pretty clear what he said (I'm not going to repeat that filth on here). The death threats and further vile abuse that Ferdinand has received is disgusting.

So the irony is a player who was the victim of racial abuse (Ferdinand) and didn't really report it is now getting horrendous abuse, whethers a player who almost certainly didn't get racially abused and who has a history of false claims (Evra) carries on.

Make no mistake. What Evra is doing with his false claims does in no way at all help players like Ferdinand who have suffered this sort of racial abuse.

So if that's the case then what's to stop any player making claims? Perhaps Suarez should claim that Evra was racist to him........................

Let me see if I get your logic, LSD. 

Evra a liar because he's lied before and as such, you've passed judgement, which I'm assuming you are not an investigator into alleged incident and are not privy to the documentation/evidence under review, when no verdict has been delivered, and your problem is that someone has been found guilty before being proved innocent --- and your solution to this "mockery" is to suggest that someone should make a false accusation as pay back, out of spite?

With due respect, LSD. Are you high?

Ha ha apologies I don't think I explained myself very well!

My point is this. If you don't punish players who make false claims then there is nothing to stop anybody making false claims.

In law people can be prosecuted for slander, false rape claims etc. Does this stop some victims coming forward? Yes. But does this mean that false claims are reduced? Yes.

The problem is that it's not an ideal world. Racism does exist and sadly it probably always will. We can try and educate peopleand punish offenders, but also we must punish people who make false claims as the people they are really hurting with those false claims are the legitimate victims of racism.

So do you really think he would have been charged if Evra's claim was completely false?? Its clear at this point that Evra wasn't just making things up, he's not getting banned. I think this is a case where you need to set aside loyalties and see this for what it is. Agree that Terry needs to be treated identically for this to have any credibility though.

How is it clear?

The FA have decided that Suarez has a case to answer (probably just because there has been an accusation.) It does in NO way prove that Evra wasn't making things up.

INNOCENT BEFORE PROVEN GUILTY.

How is it clear?

Perhaps you have been convinced by the zero evidence presented?

Perhaps you are convinced by the referee not mentioning it at the time (foul and abusive language is a red card offence). 

Perhaps you are convinced by Patrice Evra's previous false claims?

You obviously econviced by our great club and a man with the integrity of King Kenny giving their full backing to Luis Suarez.

Im convinced by the fact that the FA have reviewed 12 hours of footage that neither I nor you have seen, Im convinced that any inquiry rarely makes all evidence public while a case in progress, Im convinced that you can say something to another man on a football pitch without anyone else hearing it. I think the most likely explanation is the proposed 'Negrito' thing, it fits in with what both Suarez and Evra have said. If that is the case then Evra has no case to answer and Suarez, while not being outwardly racist, surely has a case to answer for what he surely knew were racially provocative comments in English.  

Sorry your points just don't add up.

The FA have examined 12 hours footage we haven't seen you say?

How? We are in the information age. Thousands saw the game. Thousands recorded it legally or illegally. There has been not a shread of evidence to support Evra's latest claims.

 

"you can say something to another man on a football pitch without anyone else hearing it"

Well yes, I can do that because I'm not Luis Suarez and when I play it's not Liverpool v Man Utd watched by millions globally, and I don't have a multitude of cameras tracking my every move.

But Mr focus-of-attention himself pulling that off in complete secrecy?  And ten times?  And then collaborating with the ref to make sure he doesn't include it in his report either?
This I'm not so convinced about.  And I'm sure many here share that opinion.

Quite right. You can even watch a game by following one player nowadays (yes some people are that sad!) and not one camera has revealed anything.

Lets put racism to one side for a second. Evra is a despicable liar, pure and simple.

Well, here's what I think might be happening.  The case is very public, and the FA are pressured to charge someone.  They can't dismiss the case or leave it hanging because then they'd be seen as incompetent and indecisive - a perception they've built up and are desperately trying to get away from.  So, who do they charge?  Quite likely there really is no evidence (if there was, it would have surfaced by now).  So it's just Evra's word against Suarez's.  

Without going into the reasons why there's a complete lack of evidence (and that's where Liverpool and Utd fans would differ), the FA is faced with a simple situation - they need to charge either Evra or Suarez.  Who should it be?  

As it turns out, they've decided the safer bet would be Suarez.  And I don't blame them - 1) It shows a strong stance against racism, right in line with what they've been preaching all along (nevermind that it might be wrong in this case); 
2) As the FA if you're going to piss off someone, it's safer to piss off the less influential party, ie. Liverpool rather than Fergie and Utd;
3) The media and public have already charged Suarez.  It's a lot easier to go along with that than risk even further damage to the FA's reputation by issuing an unpopular ruling and then fighting to justify it.

Of course I could be wrong and maybe there's actually plenty of evidence that's just been really well hidden all this time.  But trying to put any loyalties aside, this is one way I feel the FA could very rationally come to such a conclusion.          

You couldn't possibly be suggesting that the FA are making a weak decision based on the media and whisky noses comments?

Perish the thought.................................................. 

Well, not a biased decision necessarily.  Just a very practical one.

If I had no predisposition toward Liverpool, I'd do the same.  

Here we go agian the FA is a disgrace even considering this charge but its being done to take the heat of John Terry, the bully and thug

Very good point about John Terry. I hadn't considered that but it does make sense.